[References: see Greyhawk References]
Sunday, August 16, 2020
Old Greyhawk Castle - Side Levels
Old Greyhawk Castle - Extradimensional Levels
An other-world locale could be devised for a dungeon transporter, although they are usual for cursed scrolls only. Perhaps a strange red-soiled planet with about half the gravity of the normal world for PCs. There might indeed be six-limded humanoids and beasts roaming about there... #3107
Planet of Adventure
Science Fiction is really no more than future fantasy, so that was a logical choice, and one that was popular with most players. The more daring (Rob, Ernie, Terry, etc.) loved to send their PCs into the "future" alternate world area based on Vance's "Planet of Adventure." This was the "Carabas" where the Dirdir hunted humans out seeking nodes bearing sequins. #1227
but then again, the GM can always create such places for his own campaign, just as my lads used to get sent off to a place a lot like the Carabas of the planet Tchai where aliens hunted humans therein who in turn were seeking valuable sequin-like deposits contained in rock geodes. #3107
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 13
Bottom Level / Zagyg / Invisible.
Contained an inescapable slide which took the players clear through to China. [3]
Invisible Stalkers and other minions of the secret master of the the castle herded him to the center, where a magically enabled 'slide' carried Robilar down through the earth and out again on the other side of the world, exiting in a strange temple in a land very much like Cathay (China), where nobody could understand him, and from whence he would hav to adventure his way back to Greyhawk over land and sea. Before being launched, though, as a fighter Robilar had found +3 armor, shield, and sword; and as he careened down that chute to elsewhere he saw none other than Zagyg the Mad Archmage waving bye-bye to him from a sphere of force above, granting with that gesture one whole experience level to Robilar for his accomplishment. [15]
Room with Reward Statues for reaching the bottom; Fighter Statue with Boots of Elvenkind, +3 sword, +3 shield and +2 plate mail. Also there, a staff of wizardry, snake staff on statues of Clerics or Mages if you were of that class.
When I was running the campaign alone, the dungeons of Castle Greyhawk were only 13 levels deep. On the 13th was Zagig himself--he observed what went on above, restocked, etc. When a character got down to his level there was no going back. The one managing that was given an appropriate reward then sent on a giant, one-way slide clear through to the other side of the world, a place akin to China;) They had only what they carried at the time. Finding the lowest level was very difficult. Rob, playing Robilar solo, delved into the dungeon, made it. Ernie, noting Rob's absence from adventuring with the party, sent Tenser on a solo quest to discover Robilar's whereabouts. He managed to follow a similar path, and made level 13. Then Terry Kuntz noted both of his usual companions were not available to play, went forth with Terik, and made the lowest level successfully. These PCs were around 10th level at this time. Rob never mapped, and Ernie didn't either when he went exploring with Tenser, so there was no cheating. Can't say how they managed it, but all three did it in succession. Each then solo-adventured back overland successfully via different routes.
No other players in the group managed that. About a month after all that Rob and I combined out castles, and Greyhawk Castle's dungeons grew massively, from about 20 levels total, 13 deep, to over 40, going down to about 28 levels. #1307
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 11
Arena
The home of the most powerful wizard in the castle. He had Balrogs as servants. The remainder of the level was populated by Martian White Apes, except the sub-passage system underneath the corridors which was full of poisonous creatures with no treasure. [3]
The name Arena appears only once in all the lists of core levels, and there is the Arena of Evil in the side levels.
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 10
Lesser Caverns.
Caves and caverns featuring a transporter nexus with an evil Wizard (with a number of tough associates) guarding it. [3]
There's no living quarters, guard posts, conjuring rooms, laboratories, etc. in the Greater or Lesser Caverns. [?] Given that, it is unclear how the wizard lived there. The nexus may have been one to lead to different sites in the dungeon (transporter being a term for teleporter).
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 9
Greater Caves.
Caves and caverns featuring giant insects.[3]
Long, downward-sloping passages in strategic locations in the lower levels of the dungeon, so that there was a slight chance that an adventurer might get on such a path and find himself all the way at the bottom of the dungeons without realizing what had happened. May also include Thouls, Troll-Ghouls.
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 8
Lesser Caves
Caves and caverns featuring Trolls.[3]
Also here is a dungeon maze, at the center of which a good werebear guards a special scroll (Urn of Moon Dust) that will free Fraz-urb-luu. [16/320]
The Jeweled Man / Golden Man
First time encountered on level eight, but can be encountered on several levels, especially cleared ones.
Until some player’s character manages to discover the truth about him, the mystery will never be revealed. That’s a secret, and mystery is part and parcel of a good campaign.
"a figure made entirely of gold" and "encrusted with faceted gems of all sizes and shapes"--"thousands of carats of diamonds, sapphires, emeralds, and rubies" first encountered here, too fast for PCs to catch even with boots of speed, magic to hold it had no effect, "it seemed impossible to take the creature by surprise", several groups launched failed attempts to prove it unreal (an illusion). First encountered in the "mid-levels" and "down to a moderate depth". [16/290]
There was nothing in the entire Greyhawk dungeon as insidious as the Golden Warrior. The upper levels of Gary's dungeon would get explored and emptied of goodies. After a bit there would be new and more deadly dangers to face there. However, if we wanted to get to the lower levels, we had to walk through those upper ones. One day we are turning a corner and a warrior all in gold runs past up and we are surprised. We shot at it and cast some spells, but he didn't stop it from running. It was an unusual sight and we all took it as a challenge. Every other adventure we would walk those pillaged halls and suddenly the gold warrior would run past us. We managed to hit it with our magical weapons; we set traps for it that the being bullied its way through; eventually we set up elaborate traps with ballista, nets, and spells all to no avail. Eventually, we had to give up. The act of trapping this fast moving pile of gold was taking a lot of time and resources. After that, whenever the golden warrior appeared we waved it good day. [30.1]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 7
Maze
Centered around a circular labyrinth and a street of masses of ogres. [3]
While the names above are established, the order of this and the remaining is not well resolved, the name Maze is also given for level 13, and sometimes for earlier levels.
The Face in the Floor
"Erac's Cousin [...] came upon a beautiful face that cried golden tears. The face told the adventurers the tale of his imprisonment and the heroic deeds required to release him. The adventurers agreed to recover The Urn of Moon Dust from a group of werebears. [They] successfully recovered the urn, and [...] sprinkled the moon dust on the weeping visage. The face was actually the demon prince of deception, Fraz-Urb'luu, who had been imprisoned by the mad arch-mage Zagyg centuries earlier. The completion of the quest resulted in his release. The demon then whisked himself and the adventurers back to his own plane where strange forces drained the magic from all [their] items. Fraz-Urb'luu quickly subdued the stranded adventurers and they suffered unspeakable tortures at his hands before they eventually managed to escape." "Actually the face duped our duet into pouring a potion onto it. The potion was held by a very large and very good aligned wearbear, which for some reason our duet didn't wonder about."
The doughty explorers made their way quickly through some upper levels of the dungeons and came upon one where the main encounter was with the bas-relief head of a magically chained demon prince, Fraz-urb-luu. Upon entering the place, the demon’s power was sufficient to prevent the paladin from detecting evil. [...] off the two stalwarts went to an 8th-level dungeon maze at the center of which a werebear guarded a special scroll that would free the demon lord from his confinement [...] Eylerach read the scroll, and the freed Demon Lord carried both PCs with him to the Abyss, where their magical swords (2 vorpal swords and a holy avenger +5 that Gary wanted out of the campaign) became useless. [16/320]
This is a good example of why giving to much treasure and then taking it away sucks. Ernie was aware of the trap, but continued on to play in character I don’t think Ernie has forgiven me for the loss of Erac’s blades, and he had just cause to be upset, Gary wrote 30 years later. Clearly one should learn from this.
The location of the face on the 7th is not sure, as it is not clearly stated if the PCs went down to the 8th, but the intro says they went through some upper levels - if the dungeon has 13 levels, with the 13th being a special exit level, then upper levels would be 1-4, mid-levels would be 5-8, and lower levels would be 9-12. There would be no point to mention they went to the 8th, if they already were there, to it must have been above the 8th. So it could be anywhere between level 5-7. But level 6 already has strong unique encounters with both wereboar-maze and was the "black dragon level" that players avoided, and if it was level 5, this would be gap of full three levels, it seems a bit too far apart.
Well of Shadows is bottoming out here (but was not part of the Original Castle, only of the home campaign).
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 6
Labyrinth. or, "The Black Dragon Level"
A repeating maze with dozens of wild hogs (3 dice) in inconvenient spots, naturally backed up by appropriate numbers of Wereboars. [3]
At the northern end were a series of large chambers, while to the south lay a number of mazes populated by monsters such as wereboars and, of course, minotaurs. The large chambers had four exits in the cardinal directions. Separating these were large areas of seemingly solid stone and each blank zone held a secret door leading to a repository of magical goodies that contained only one type of treasure---potions; scrolls; magic armor, shields, and weapons; and gems, money, and non-magic items. In addition to the treasure troves, two black dragons were held in stasis in similar caches, purple worm may be "allied" to the mated dragon pair (black dragon and purple worm battle by Robilar in second run). A black pudding that made its lair in a hollow passageway and dissolved Robilars boots of flying upon entering the level.
This level was a labyrinth with a lot of were-boars and other shape-shifting creatures lurking around. To the east were several large open areas, all alike of course, and on the western faces of the seemingly solid stone forming these big chambers were secret doors. These accessed six rooms. These hidden places were filled with gold, jewels, scrolls, potions, other magical items, and enchanted weapons. All save two, that is. The second and fourth of these held a mated pair of the oldest and largest black dragons held in stasis, freed when the secret door was opened, that also lowering a wall section for the good dragon to exit. [15]
After the two dragons were by accident both freed by the greedy treasure hunters:
They had discovered previously that there was a shaft that went upwards several hundred feet in the far eastern portion of the level.
With an overall level depth of 50 feet. This would indicate that several hundred feet would span at least four levels, which from level six would be all the way up to level two or even level one. Unless the level was offset to the side, the round room at the very north-eastern corner of level one and three would fit the description "in the far eastern portion", and also the admonishment that unusual areas and rich treasures should be relatively difficult to locate, and access must be limited [1].
Robilar, sparated from the others would have the first check for a random monster, of course, seeing as how there had been considerable commotion. [...] A purple worm was indicated, and it could be only one place .... coming down the shaft! [15]
In his haste to allow his character to escape, Rob forgot that the passageway down which he said Robilar was fleeing happened to be the very one in which a large black pudding had taken up residence in a depression on the floor. It ate those boots of levitation off his feet as Robilar ran across, and delivered sufficient additional damage to put the poor fighter near his end. [15]
In the previous looting the three discoverers went up a couple of levels each [...] from which lesson I learned never to have so much treasure so unguarded. [15]
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 5
Catacombs.
Centered around a strange font of black fire and gargoyles. [3]
Sloping passage / stair complex
About a third of one level was given over to a special complex, and most of the other passageways through the level accessed this portion so as to invite entry. Inside it, long passages sloped gradually down to a central area where a flight of stairs conveyed the wayfarer back up to the elevation of the surrounding area. However, once inside, the number of direction choices was seemingly far greater, although all eventually led back to the central declivity, the stairway back up. [16/293] This is not located for sure on level five, but the statement that The PCs altered their route so as to explore" and were surprised to find monsters that aren't very tough for so deep a level [16/293] would indicate it cannot be much further down than fifth, maybe even higher up.
The Great Stone Face of Greyhawk, the Enigma of Greyhawk
A "towering block of carved stone ... located in a large open area of one of the mid-levels of the dungeon complex, a circle of strange runes and pictograms were carved around its base, and impervious to read magic and comprehend languages, radiates several sorts of magic, attracts wandering monsters". [16/288]
The Great Stone Face was a large Easter Island looking statue, illustrated by Gygax himself in the Greyhawk Supplement. [16/288]
Mid-levels could be anything from level 5 to 8.
Erac's Cousin was lawful good, but he was also greedy, a trait that the wizard Bombadil was able to use to his advantage. Deep in the dungeons of Greyhawk Castle there stands an enormous stone statue known as The Great Stone Face, or The Enigma of Greyhawk. A ring of strange runes circle the base of the statue, and the statue itself radiates magic. Many adventurers have tried in vain to unlock the enigma's secrets. While adventuring alone in the dungeons Bombadil placed a Magic Mouth spell on the stone face that when triggered stated, "The ways of balance need to be maintained. Give your most prized possession as a gift freely to one who walks the path of balance and your great reward will follow in short time." Shortly thereafter Bombadil returned to the chamber of The Great Stone Face, this time accompanied by Erac's Cousin. While exploring the area Bombadil conveniently placed himself out of hearing range of the spell. As planned his unnamed companion triggered the spell, and a short time later donated a potent magic item to the sly Bombadil, who just happened to be the first neutral character Erac‘s cousin ran into.
The moral of this brief tale is a simple one: If the DM places something that seems insoluble in the campaign, if it defies attempts to unravel its mystery for a prolonged period, the players will likely take over and make something else of it.
Deep in the dungeons would indicate this is on a lower level than five, maybe up to 8 which still is mid-levels.
I suspect there really was no explanation behind it. It just was a monster magnet and a way to puzzle players. Gygax commented that he did not want to release the real background, but rather several possible explanations, as: "the very best part of mysteries is keeping them that".
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 4
Crypts
A level of crypts and undead [3].
Secret doors to areas they wanted to explore in the pits, some leading to additional traps. [16]
A band of gnolls in an out-of-the-way corner hides a portable hole in a dead-end corridor behind the gnolls' lair---the 'hole is open, so it looks like a "jagged hole in the floor" (it is 10 feet deep and four feet). [16 / 296]
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 3
This is the third level of the Old Greyhawk Castle, named THE DUNGEONS, redrawn for clarity.
Level 3 featured a torture chamber and many small cells and prison rooms. [3]
A magical laboratory that's difficult to find exists near the center of dungeon level 3. [16/287]
The hexagonal room in the upper left likely was the torture chamber, East of it are the cells.
The "Secret Laboratory near the center of the map" could be the section that includes the diamond shaped room.
It's not quite clear to me if the darker corridors were intended to show lower ground, or overlap, or if they just end at each other. I think slopes and overlap is more interesting but harder to make work logically.
This map also shows that Gary remodeled / re-edited, with additional rooms added at the very bottom, and in some areas, darker shade of erased solid stone sections showing.
The position of the central Staircase and the round room at the upper right match to level one, which makes me think that room also was a shaft that traversed multiple levels.
We again encounter the weird bisected squares, that were in front of one of the stairs down in triplicate on level 1, this time sectioning off an area. Covered pits, maybe?
The "Well of Darkness", from this blog post is highly likely the "Well of Shadow" and was a later feature not present in the original castle (a pity really, the play reports from his refurbished home game in 2007 sounded awesome): Jon Creffield and I did a pretty deadly and most unusual dungeon crawl module back in 1999, The Well of Shadows. He is working on re-creating the lost level maps for it, and I hope to turn the ms. over to TLG by the end of the year. [35]
Obmi
Obmi first encountered here, with gnoll archer servitors; Obmi had boots of speed and dwarven thrower; gnolls and Obmi had a repulsion projector ray (10'-wide beam, 90' range). [16/287]
Repulsion ray included both a reversal of course and a temporary illusion that the subjects were still moving towards the dwarf. After a round of enforced retrograde the effect ended, and the party was back where it started from. [?]
Elevator Room. The elevator on level 3 (EGG/GrhCastle 1). Seems simple, but the idea is very complex for a supposed medieval society. And it wasn’t magical. [RJK]
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle, Level 2
Cells/Dungeons/Cellars/Deep Cellars.
Had two unusual items, a Nixie pool and a fountain of snakes [3]. A pond of never-ending snakes. [20, p. 63]
Covered pits appear, and could be placed in rooms and chambers. [16 / 294]
Giant lizard (with gems in his innards). Wights in a dungeon cell area. [?]
Robilar was trapped at 2nd level near abandonned cells by two wights [41]
(Here the episode of "it was all a dream" with Robilar would have happened).
It was quite possible to journey downward to the bottom level by an insidious series of slanting passages which began on the second level, but the likelihood of following such a route unknowingly didn't become too great until the seventh or eight level. [3]
Also here is a transporter room 20x20 to a lower level (likely level 4) [14].
In the home campaign [12], likely because they already were level 4, the players encountered: six gnolls, then a troll, and eventually a giant lizard, a human warrior and a dozen orcs that were his servants, winning 3,000 gp in gold and gems, a wand of paralysis, a snake staff, and a +2 dagger.
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Saturday, August 15, 2020
Old Greyhawk Castle Level 1
This is the original level one from Old Castle Greyhawk, the only level for which we have both the map an the key from Gary's notes. The map is the original 1972 one. Here is a cleaned up view.
LEVEL 1 THE VAULTS
1. 9-16 KOBOLDS – dust covered silver mirror 750 CP[?]
2. 7-12 GOBLINS – 10 GP /
3. 3-12 GIANT RATS – no treasure (in room potion strength)
4. 10-16 BANDITS, LEADER WARRIOR - +1 shield, potion und. cont., 1,000 GP
5. 5-8 GIANT CENTIPEDE NEST –
6. 2-3 HOBGOBLINS – Battle axe +1, gem 200-800 GP
7. 1 GIANT BLACK WIDOW / SKELETON IN PLATE AR – 50 GP on floor
8. – IRON[?] CHEST, EMPTY - false bottom[?], needle trap, 6 gems c 200 ea
9. 3-7 ORCS - chest with 8 flasks oil, 30 SP + 8 GP /
10. – WATER SEEPAGE – drink!
11. 1 GIANT CONSTRICTOR – Gems inside (1-4) or nothing 50/50[?]
12. – RUSTLING CORRIDOR – no bats
13. 2-5 SKELETONS (pile of bones) – 1 piece of jewelry [in pile?] (d10 x 300)
14. 1-2 GIANT BATS – no treasure – RUSTLING [more text unreadable, may continue line above]
15. 1 GIANT STINK BEETLE – 2 attack in 5’ r. – nothing/10-100 SP + 1-10 GP
16. 3 BERSERKERS – R. of Prot., 20-40 GP each, Idol with curse (-1/[+3?]/[d in or dia?])
17. 1 SEER (Chaotic) – LIGHT, CH.PER. – +1 dagger, spell books, 1-20 GP
18. 1 EVIL ADEPT + 1 GNOLL Gd. CAUSE LT. WOUND.– staff of healing (6 [?] chg)
X-circle [red] PIT – 10’ deep – TRAP
O-circle [green] TRANSPORTER
A warrior is a level 2 fighter (called fighting-man in OD&D), a seer a level 2 wizard (called magic-user), an adept is a level 2 cleric. Based on the stories of the original adventures, the centipede nest should originally have been near the entrance.
The reason for the unused space on the right border is that there are 3-ring binder holes there. While the maps were in plastic sleeves at the con, the original was likely put in a three ring binder with the map on the left, the key on the right, for play.
Here is Matt Bogen's photo of Gary running the game for ENWorld moderators at GenCon 2007 that provided the source for all this:
The original map from the photo, stretched square and magnified:
Gary described he originally created the level as: A simple maze of rooms and corridors, for none of the participants had ever played such a game before. [3]
Monsters & Treasure
Traps
The map does indicate traps. What were these traps?
This map is from the same session, as the map on the photo above, but it differs at several points, in ways that cannot all just be mapping errors: the entrance stairs and room are different, doors differ, the area north of the split room near their entrance differs, the rooms and archway location near the stink bug differ, and most extremely, the stairs down they found are definitely not on Gary's map.
All this just goes to show that Gary used the map and key for the most part to trigger his imagination and provide framework, while he made up a lot on the fly.
Is this really the original level one map? What about the one from Castle Zagyg?
This map, not the one from Castly Zagyg is the original 1972 1st level. Gary says so himself in his report on the game. He also describes the original level like this: It was a level that had lots of corridors and rooms, few squares penciled in to indicate solid stone. There were, however, only about 20 encounters on it", and in a forum post stated I have run OD&D games every year at several cons for the last five or so years. I start them at 2nd level [the PCs, not the dungeon level, ed.] and use the old dungeon levels. [17]
[Benoist] reports in the K&K Alehouse forum that Ernest Gygax, who played in the original campaign, also remembers the map to look like this, not like the one from Castle Zagyg: I showed the maps to Ernest, both this one, and the map of level 3. He told me these certainly look like the original maps of Castle version 1, back when Rob was a player, not a DM. I showed Ernie [...], the Castle Zagyg map [...], and the level 1 map [above] together, in that order. His answer was [...] the bottom map is the way I remember the 1st level.
How does this play?
I have not played it, but the fact that everyone, including Gary dropped this style of labyrinthine maps and mapping challenges likely means it was less fun than a map with higher occupancy and fewer rooms. You were wandering around wasting time to get to the good parts.
Here is a quote from T. Foster, about how playing such a dungeon feels:
The long hallways and winding, circuitous, and overlapping routes (and occasional dead-ends), the clustered nests of small rooms, the low occupancy rate (with the vast majority of rooms empty or only transiently occupied) -- all of these help create the "maze-like" atmosphere where the dungeon seems bigger and more complex than it actually is. Throw in a couple teleporters, one-way doors, and sliding walls (all of which are probably there, the resolution of the pic just isn't high enough to pick them up) and this one-sheet 5x5-grid dungeon level with probably about 200 rooms and 18 keyed encounters will, in play, feel almost infinitely large, with dozens or even hundreds of options facing the players. Which means that when they do come across something distinctive and unusual (i.e. one of those 18 key encounters) they'll really feel like they've accomplished something (and then will start wondering how they're going to find their way back to the surface, and how they're ever going to find this room again -- and suddenly the idea of players drawing a map begins to make a lot more sense :)).
If you've never run or played in this type of dungeon it has a feel that's completely different from a simpler, more straightforward layout that, even if it's large, is still easy for the players to grasp conceptually, and that makes them feel that it's only a matter of time (and patience) for them to have explored and mapped the entire place. In a dungeon like this you don't feel that way -- you always feel like you've barely scratched the surface of its possibilities.
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Greyhawk Campaign Play Style
What was Greyhawk like?
More than the specific floor plans or monsters, the play experience is what made the essence of Greyhawk Castle and the City of Greyhawk .
Although he was a storyteller, there was no effort to thread a plot through his dungeon. Keep in mind that this was the dawn of role-playing and some concepts of 2020 gaming weren't known then. It was entirely find the monsters, fight the monster, and take his treasure. [30.2]
In those early versions of the game there was no thought of story line or major villains to be over come. It was all fight the monsters, defeat the monsters, and grab their treasures. [30.3]
After the industry had moved to painfully boring railroads of level-adequate battle challenges, player agency is one of the key concepts that the "old school revival" rediscovered.
There was a constant escalation of new tricks and traps vs new tactics to work around them. After characters began listening at doors regularily, Gary invented ear-worms that would bore into your head from the door. The players countered with "Ear Trumpets" to protect themselves. He then ruled that you had to take off your helmet and mail coif, which would take time and leave you vulnerable in case of attack.
Some of the dungeon chambers were filled with surprises. There were creatures hiding above the doors, there were creatures looking like tables and chests, and there were surprises in plain sight that would attack as we moved in the rooms. It got so that I would say upon entering any new area, “Gary, I look up, and down, and all around the area before I walk in. That stopped a lot of ugly surprises from happening. [30.2]
There was nothing to detract from imagining your surrounding. In spite of coming from a tabletop battle background, there were no miniatures and no battlemat. Neither were there soundtracks or (with rare execptions) props. Flow and action even trumped the rules, as Gary would rather make up a chance for something based on experience, knowledge and his judgment, than interrupt play by looking up rules.
During games, cross-talk was discouraged: the party caller did most of the talking, and other players only talked if they had something to contribute. If the players chattered too much, they’d miss what the Disembodied Voice was saying, and that would be, as Mike put it, “suicide”. “You could feel the tension in the room,” he added. [29]
The second important aspect was that Gary rarely looked up rules in the rulebook. Firstly, the rules were light anyways and did not cover many cases, and secondly even if they did, adjucating without stopping play to look up the detail rule kept the action going. This rules-light approach allowed all participants to just imagine and describe what they wanted to do, without being restrained by rules mechanisms. Anything was possible, you just needed to trust the GM to give a fair estimate of success.
Lastly: Gary used a lot of mysterious noises early on, without direct monster conflict, to create an atmosphere of tension. The first level key has an entry for "rustling". The DMG Appendix I has a whole list of mysterious noises and sounds. I did not realize this may have a had a significant effect on play atmosphere, until I saw this post by Rob Kuntz, where he describes unnerving Gary with the noise of mysterious footsteps:
If it had instead been an encounter with goblins, for instance, this “physical” encounter would not have fashioned itself as anxiety in fantasy immersion terms but primarily in game terms only, and then only briefly as the mind moved to focus on the combat and statistics side through immediate evaluation of circumstances. [...] Both Gary and I immediately recognized, and separated, the game parts from the immersive world, the latter which we concentrated on. [...] So the Gygax and Kuntz credo was: Always keep your players guessing; and the best way that is accomplished is to always keep them at the edge of doubt through rising and falling anxiety.
The whys and hows of the monster population in the gloomy labyrinths were unimportant to all concerned. The sense of danger in mentally exploring a lightless maze filled with perilous traps and fell creatures of unimaginable sort was far more important [7]
I mean it. Back in the Greyhawk Campaign, there was A LOT of play. There was so much playing going on, that Gary ran two sessions on some days, and later enlisted Rob Kuntz as a Co-DM to help. This must have been a much more immersive experience. Groups could count over 20 players on weekends. This left little time for long arguments, acting or detailed rules.
Because groups were so large, and to streamline actions, each group had a "caller" who was the one to tell the GM, what the group was doing.
The actions of these groups were persistent. If one group slew monsters, plundered treasure or destroyed a wall, the monsters would be dead, the treasure gone, the wall demolished for the others. If you wasted time, some other party might take advantage of you and get to the treasure first. This experience must have made it feel much more a real place to the players, than a typical "adventure" that just provides a story around the characters.
Unsurprising given the wargaming background of most players, the predominant dungeon setting, and the large groups of players with using a "caller", most of the time in the inital campaign was spent on exploration and combat, with little role-play.
Later as groups got smaller, and play shifted more to city adventures, more negotiation, investigation and intrigue was possible, but the players were still pretty uninterested in playing a character (and often there was no clear distinciton between player and character). As more retainers and henchmen were handled, this then started to get into character a bit more, to keep appart whom one just had talking.
Mapping was part of the challenge
"His games featured a lot of mapping of dungeons. As the heroes explored, one player had to draw what Gary described on graph paper. Part of the game was trying to figure out when a passage was gently sloping. Ideas like pouring some water on the ground and seeing where it trickled help, until Gary started having water seeping into the floor's many cracks." [29]
Also never doubt that Gary was not a Monty Haul referee. He had to be because he had to play test all of the magic items he put in his rules. He had no idea what a Deck of Many Things or a Portable Hole would do to his campaign world. So his wondrous dungeon was liberally sprinkled with magical treasures. [30.2]
Then we have the concept of cursed items. Gary loved to expose his players to cursed items; way too much if you asked me. [30.2]
The procedure for sharing this treasure that the players came up with:
Assume that you’re speaking in character. We entered the dungeon with a lot of hirelings: we had hired a dozen bandits last session, and this session we hired half a dozen heavy footmen. At three people per rank, our expedition filled about twenty feet of 10-foot-wide corridor.
Our party was so unwieldy that the wizard joked about letting the dangers of the dungeon doing our downsizing for us. The hirelings heard him, and they were not happy. A few bad reaction rolls later, and my bandit followers abandoned us in the dungeon.
We should have foreseen this, because Mike’s NPCs tended to join into our out-of-character strategy conversations. When we lost a heavy footman, and we were discussing whether it was worth it to get him resurrected, the other heavy footmen weighed in strongly on the “pro” column. [29]
Gary views on what made for the original play expereince
- Absolute authority of the DM, rules lawyers given the boot
- Rule books seldom used by a competent DM
- Action and adventure in play
- Swords & sorcery, not comic book superhero genre material
- Group co-operation paramount for success
- Freedom to extemporize and innovate for all participants
- Reliance on archetypical models for characters
- Fellowship of those participating [6 #7878]
- Pay attention to what the player group finds most interesting, and provide adventures that reflect this preference.
- Do not let the rules get in the way of play; be the arbiter of the game so that the adventure continues on without unnecessary interruptions, and the immersion of the players in the milieu remains complete.
- Do not make the group face impossible challenges, and keep the rewards as reasonable as possible (that is modest), so that there is always someting more to seek after.
- Well developed villains are usually very compelling to players, and the longer these antagonists remain alive and thwarting the PCs, the more exciting the adventures.
- Mix up the adventure settings so that play is not always in the same sort of place. A town adventure leads to a wilderness trek, that brings the party to a subterranean setting for example. From there they might have a waterborne or aerial mission. [6 #6966]
I’m still not sure what player skill is in OD&D, and I still think it has something to do with battle tactics, trapfinding procedures, and gaming the DM. But I’m also starting to think it has something to do with respecting the gameworld as a world. Monsters learn. Henchmen want riches and safety. PCs can’t communicate telepathically. And if you’re a dwarf fighter, sometimes your best course of action is to hit something with an axe.
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Friday, August 14, 2020
Old Greyhawk Castle Ruins
The fallen west gate of Greyhawk Castle was at hand, and through this mouldering portal the party passed. In a few moments they had entered the great central keep, heaved open an inner door, and carefully proceeded down a set of winding stone steps---steps worn with age and slippery with dampness. They had entered the dungeons." [4]
The Central Staircase
[T]he wide staircase provides access through levels 1 to 3. [7]
Gary briefly described the castle ruins and broken walls and outline, and then we immediately descended down spiral stairs into the dungeon. We get almost at the bottom of the stairs - about to walk into a room, when a large spider drops down from the ceiling and bites the lead PC. He fails his check and dies of poison! [14]
The central staircase went down a good 125-150 feet - at fifty foot intervals were doors. We ignored these and continued to go down. Eventually we came to bottom and a landing that led to another narrow hallway heading in a northeasterly direction that went on for a good 80-100ft, which abruptly ended in a dead-end. [12]
The stairs have been described to go down to level 3, but the purported map of level 3 does not match this play report - there is no dead-end corridor with secret door to the North-East if we assume N is up -- and the round rooms of level 1 and 3 align, so no different compass rose either. Level four is supposed to be undead, and they encounter a wraith.
Random Encounters
Six robed men who wear pointy hats with symbols on them, low level magic-users who charm person. Old school charm person, good for a long time. From the play reports it sounds as if wizards essentially consisted of sleep (against groups of weaker monsters) and charm person (against strong individuals).
[References: see Greyhawk References]
Old Greyhawk Castle Level Design
Old Greyhawk Castle Dungeon Level Design
"We used all sizes of graph paper (4, 6, 8, and even 10 squares to the inch); EGG and I also liked to use several methods, such as transporters and long, slowly descending down-slants, both of which caused players to map parts of two levels as one. EGG always made maze like maps, with down slants, transporters, shifting walls and rooms and other such contraptions and devices to befuddle mappers" (RJK)
I use graph paper of four, five, and six squares to the inch. when my eyes were better I sometimes used eight... [35]
In Castle Zagyg, the ceilings of rooms on the first level are 24 feet high at the apex, with up to 25 feet of rock above, making an overall level depth about 50 feet, it is plausible that the Old Castle had comparable dimensions, at least for the upper, non-cavernous levels.
The great central staircase that went down to level 3 and has been described as approximately 150 feet deep also would indicate about 50' depth per level.
Encounters named only something like "9-16 gnolls," in an area. If it was a big party of PCs entering I'd make that 16 gnolls and have some sort of leader or leaders with them. If only a few characters of low level were exploring and entered the place they might encounter only 9 of those critters. #1418
Modification and Evolution
I did indeed create details for the PC party on the spot, adding whatever seemed appropriate, and as Rob played and learned from me, he did the same, and when we were actively co-DMing we could often create some really exciting material on the spot, if you will. [6]
When the encounter was elimiated I simply drew a line through it, and the place was empty for the foreseeable future. I'd give Rob the details of any session he was not at and vice versa, so we winged all of it. Sometimes a map change and encouunter key note of something special in nature was made, but not often. We both remembered things well, Rob very well and when necessary something was made up out of whole cloth for the sake of continuity of adventuring. [6]
When the setting was in constant use, we never restocked, just drafted new side and deeper levels, as it was assumed that the depredations of the cruel PC parties kept the monsters away in fear and loathing :uhoh:
[References: see Greyhawk References]
The Berlin years
When I got to start at University, I converted Rocky Horror Picture Show, which I liked and had an audience participation tape of, into a RP...
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Here are descriptions of origin, intended looks, function or behaviour for various monsters in OD&D and AD&D from the ENworld and Dr...
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This is the original level one from Old Castle Greyhawk, the only level for which we have both the map an the key from Gary's notes. The...
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Delta uses " Equivalent Hit Dice " (EHD for short) from simulations for OD&D to determine how strong a monster really is. It e...