tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11350512053747041732024-02-06T20:03:29.164-08:00oldschoolGroodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.comBlogger105125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-43995146647135086142023-02-03T04:09:00.107-08:002023-12-08T05:19:30.581-08:00Questions & Answers from a year of Role-Playing Games Stack Exchange<p>I spent a year of spare time asking and answering questions on Role Playing Games Stack Exchange. </p><p>You can filter for my most upvoted <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/75095/groody-the-hobgoblin?tab=questions&sort=votes">questions </a>and <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/users/75095/groody-the-hobgoblin?tab=answers&sort=votes">answers</a> on the site. But the most upvoted ones are not the intersting ones. This has several reasons. </p><h2 style="text-align: left;">Questions</h2><div><div><div><div>I found asking questions on SE difficult. The policies and active members limit what questions should be allowed, mainly questions about concrete problems you encounter in play, or simple rules questions. Everything else can easily get downvoted or closed, which means nobody can answer them. I believe this is primarily out of concern that the site would devolve into a low quality discussion forum experience. So the questions I found most interesting rarely did survive. </div><div><br /></div><div>Sometimes someone would claim I had a "X-Y problem", asking the wrong question for my problem. While this can be well-meaning, I felt it was patronizing to insist I did not know what question I was interested in, even after I confirmed I did indeed want to ask that question, not another one they wanted to rather answer. </div><div><br /></div><div><div>You need 100 questions to get the [Socratic] badge. If you make a badge that is only given for asking lots of questions, you incentivize people to ask a lot of questions. I thought about raising this on the "Meta" discussion Q&A site about the main site, but I think the community likes it the way it is, also because questions is what generates all the activity. </div><div><br /></div></div><div>Shutting down questions is easy, all it needs are five votes. You can pick your reason from "opinion-based", "off-topic", "needs focus" or "duplicate", and it is very hard to formulate a question that cannot be argued to run afoul one of the them if someone puts their mind to it. Even if it does not, that does not stop people from voting to close. Duplicate is maybe the one that has the most criteria, but there still fights if questions are duplicates or not. In a way duplicates are the most problematic, as anyone with a gold badge for the game in question can <i>single-handedly </i>close questions as duplicates. Even if the question later gets re-opened, that marks it as "not well-received" for badge achievement, and there is little you can do to avoid that other than hoping your question met with indifference or approval. </div><div><br /></div><div>I found that questions about the history of the game, worked to avoid closure. They often were intially greeted with downvotes as "mere curiosity" questions, but in the end most had high positive scores from the wider community. Questions about social issues in our game (mostly DM management) were generally well received. And question on how to interpret certain game features like spells or optimization questions about feats, but of course, I could have answered those myself. </div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Sharing Research. </b> These were some of my earliest questions, self-answering for sharing research work. Shared-research questions were mostly closed or forced through "workshopping", even though they were real problems I had had, and from my perspective were more useful than rules question you can solve in 2 minutes by reading the rulebook, because they would have saved someone else those hours or days of work. It was not a good experience, even if the people who did it meant well.</div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196215/which-monsters-can-scare-players-by-harming-their-pcs-long-term/196216#196216">Scary Monsters that deal long-term handicaps</a> Closed.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196023/how-can-i-avoid-accidentally-deadly-encounters-from-monsters-that-are-more-deadl">Handling monsters more deadly than their CR</a> Closed before getting reopened.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195715/by-what-in-game-logic-is-there-no-market-for-wizard-spells">By what in-game logic is there no market for Wizard spells?</a> Closed. <br /></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196222/which-spells-can-affect-an-opponent-permanently">Spells affecting an opponent permanently</a> Closed. @Someone_evil however managed to get a nice answer in before that. Unfortunately, I cannot award bounties on closed questions.</li></ul></div></div><div><div><b>Clarifying fundamental rules </b>and rules interpretation concepts. Questions that asked about general rules were ill received by those who wanted a <i>specific </i>problem you had run into during a game session,. Their position was one should never ask in general, claiming one cannot answer usefully in general. That's of course nonsense. It would be more useful to have general guidance, than only having answers for specific little situations. I'd often start out with several downvotes. At least, if the question somehow survived and was not permanently shut down by closure, it often got solidly positive votes. </div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203096/are-the-names-of-game-features-rules-text-or-merely-flavor">Are names of game features rules text?</a> You'd think this is not a problem question. Think again.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196993/what-is-the-source-of-the-there-are-no-hidden-secret-rules-principle">What is the source of the "There are no hidden rules" principle?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196846/is-there-a-citation-for-dd-is-not-a-physics-simulation">What is the souce for "D&D is not a physics simulation"?</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199481/is-there-support-in-the-rules-that-everyday-things-behave-as-expected">Source for "everyday things behave as expected"?</a> Closed.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196237/does-lore-count-as-rules-as-written">Does Lore count as Rules-as-Written?</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196969/when-does-an-object-count-as-a-magic-item">When is an object a magic item?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201239/can-the-term-item-also-apply-to-creatures">Does "item" include creatures?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198226/what-is-the-distance-to-points-in-another-dimension-if-there-is-a-portal-or-gat">Distances through portals</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198839/what-is-a-game-feature">What is a game feature?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198748/what-is-energy-in-5e">What is Energy in 5e?</a> </li></ul></div></div><div><b>Statistics questions</b> to help with optimization, evaluating how strong something is for game balance. These met with violent opposition, claiming statistics are not useful, you only can speak about a specific situation or play group and never generalize. Individual experiences, even in-depth statistical analysis or surveys would not be not good enough for answers, and hence the questions were closed as opinion-based. General questions about social issues around the game table on the other hand were deemed OK to ask and answer with "good-subjective", personal experience. </div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200474/what-is-the-average-number-of-encounters-per-day/200475#200475"><b>Average Number of Encounters per day</b></a> Closed as "opinion-based", much later reopened. In my mind, this is my best Q&A, looking at it from many angles, with lots of supporting evidence. </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202476/what-is-the-average-damage-per-attack-for-monsters-by-cr">Average Damage per Attack for Monsters by CR</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200182/is-there-any-estimate-of-average-damage-output-per-turn-for-pcs-by-level">Average Damage Output for PCs by level</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198531/what-is-the-net-effect-from-advantage-or-disadvantage-on-to-hit-chance">Net Effect of Advantage & Disadvantage</a> Closed as "Duplicate".</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/197203/how-fast-in-game-time-would-you-go-from-level-1-to-level-20-using-the-dmg-enco">Time it takes in-game to get to level 20</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201646/what-is-stronger-an-ability-that-can-be-used-proficiency-bonus-times-or-one-th">What is better: per short rest or proficiency bonus times?</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/197698/what-deals-more-damage-on-a-weapon-1-to-hit-or-1-to-damage/200147#200147">What deals more damage, +1 to damage or +1 to to hit?</a> Eventually I self answered to get an overview over the level range. The question survived because you also could answer it in a mathematically airtight way, by only comparing ACs with to-hits, which of course has limited practical use for deciding which of the two to put on masterwork weapons in general. </li></ul><div><b>Based on our campaign. </b>These fit the "I have a concrete problem from play" pattern.</div></div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195749/is-gloom-stalker-overpowered">Is Gloom Stalker Overpowered?</a> My most viewed question.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201758/how-to-effectively-deal-with-advanced-remote-control-tactics-in-dungeons">How to deal with advanced "remote control" tactics in dungeons?</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203353/as-a-dm-how-do-you-avoid-getting-tired-of-the-monsters-always-losing">As a DM, how do you avoid getting tired of the monsters always losing?</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198272/how-does-rod-of-rulership-work">How does Rod of Rulership work?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/197126/how-can-we-help-our-dm-to-keep-things-moving">How can we help our DM to keep things moving?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198561/how-to-manage-minions">How to manage minions?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198127/what-can-spells-cast-into-a-shield-guardian-target">What can spells in a Shield Guardian target?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201967/can-you-force-your-way-into-a-rope-trick">Can you force your way into Rope Trick?</a> <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201988/can-a-large-creature-enter-the-extradimensional-space-created-by-the-rope-trick">Can a Large creature enter?</a> <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196268/can-you-cast-the-rope-trick-spell-when-you-are-in-the-air">Can you cast it mid-air?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201269/how-far-is-it-from-undermountain-to-skullport">How far from Undermountain to Skullport?</a></li></ul><b>Individual Spells. </b>In reality due to voting, SE is a popularity contest, not a tool to determine objective truth. Votes are opinions, and often are as much about what people like, as they are about what is technically correct. In many cases when there is no clear cut rules answer, what you go to SE for is to get a feeling what people vote for and what seems to be common consensus of how to handle it best. That is how we went there first. That is, ironically, the value for us was mostly to get others <i>opinions</i>, exactly the thing that the purists claim has no place on the site. </div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198161/does-banishment-banish-carried-or-worn-equiment">Does Banishment banish equipment?</a> My second most downvotes, a valid, disliked question. </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195951/can-bigbys-hand-arcane-hand-lift-an-object">Bigby's Hand vs Telekinesis</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198928/what-are-reliable-non-concentration-spells-for-contingency">Reliable Non-Concentration spells for Contingency</a> the list is super short, to my surprise</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203052/can-an-invisible-stalker-circumvent-anti-divination-magic">Using Invisible Stalker summons to get around anti-Divination magic</a> It works</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201786/at-what-level-does-the-sleep-spell-stop-being-effective/201788#201788">What level does the sleep spell stop being effective?</a> </li><li>Teleport <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199132/when-is-an-object-sufficient-for-safe-teleport">objects needed</a>, and <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198463/can-you-teleport-more-safely-through-scrying">scrying</a>, bombing with <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198864/can-you-use-freezing-sphere-teleport-to-bomb-any-target">Freezing Sphere</a>,</li><li>Phantom Steed <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202876/what-happens-to-the-equipment-of-phantom-steed-when-the-spell-ends">equipment</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203066/how-many-creatures-can-ride-a-phantom-steed">number of riders</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202945/can-a-phantom-steed-that-has-ended-still-move">moving after ending</a></li><li>Max damage deliverable in a day with <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200679/what-is-the-maximum-damage-you-can-deliver-per-day-with-glyphs-from-a-demiplane">Glyph of Warding on a Demiplane</a></li></ul><div><b>Equipment</b></div></div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196593/is-a-normal-wizard-spellbook-a-magical-item">Normal spellbooks</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199407/why-would-anyone-buy-a-pony-over-a-mule">Pony vs Mule</a> Why pay extra for non-performance?</li></ul></div><div><b>Dealing with Shitty Rules. </b> These are questions where the rule is bad, so how to go about it? As that question would be opinion based, you can only ask for how the rules work, and hope someone answers based on experience, you cannot ask for that directly. </div><ul><li><b>Creature Space in Combat</b>: I think it is preposterous that creatures need to jump off a boat or carpet, just because combat starts. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198207/how-is-a-creatures-space-defined">How is a creature's space defined?</a> <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203165/can-you-choose-to-not-participate-in-combat">Can you chose to not participate in combat?</a> <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202734/how-many-creatures-fit-on-a-carpet-of-flying-during-combat">Creatures fitting on a carpet of flying in combat</a> -- the best solution under the rules is to declare creatures that do not want to fight efficiently <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/208975/75095">can share the space</a>. similar to allow someone to <a href="Creaturs fitting on a carpet of flying in combat I think it is preposterous that creatures need to jump off just because combat starts, and there are solid ways to rule to avoid it -- either allow the space to extend to where there is no carpet, or allow someone to not participate and therefore not command space, like an unconscious creature, but it was not well received.">not participate</a>. Same thing, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202766/how-can-creatures-fight-in-cramped-spaces-like-on-a-boat">in a boat</a>. </li><li><b>Souls</b>. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202363/is-there-a-difference-between-soul-and-spirit">Is there a difference between soul and spirit?</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196115/where-do-souls-go-upon-death-and-when-are-they-free-to-be-raised">Where do souls go after death and are they free to be raised?</a> <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196114/can-you-recall-a-soul-from-hades-with-raise-dead/196185#196185">Raising souls from hades</a>, and from the a <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196096/how-can-you-revive-a-character-who-was-killed-by-a-night-hags-nightmare-hauntin/196184#196184">night hag's nightmare haunting</a>. Does <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201061/does-revivify-work-on-trapped-souls">Revivify work on trapped souls</a>? @trish found an answer. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196148/is-there-a-way-to-bring-a-specter-back-to-life">Can you revive a specter?</a> Nope. </li><div></div><ul></ul><li><b>Expertise</b>. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200380/how-to-justify-expertise">How to justify Expertise</a> [Closed], <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200340/what-does-it-mean-to-break-bounded-accuracy">What does it mean to break bounded accuracy?</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203014/are-pixies-overpowered-for-cr-1-4">Are Pixies overpowered at CR 1/4</a>? I still don't get how anyone can defend they are not. </li></ul></div><h2 style="text-align: left;">Answers </h2><p>If you answer an old question, you get much fewer eyeballs. The bulk of people using the site do so by looking up common, very old questions found via web searches. Those already have answers, often many of them, and often also highly upvoted and accepted ones. As answers are by default sorted with the accepted answer pinned on top, and then in order of votes, if you add one more answer without votes it will be way, way down on the page. Most people won't even look at it. And if it is not one of these evergreen questions, likely nobody is looking at it at all. So getting any votes for answers to these old questions is hard. My early answers were to those questions, for example about spells like contingency, about what an object or creature is, or about portals and <i>glyph of warding,</i> and often stuck at 0 or few votes.</p><p>I also initially answered unanswered old questions that irked my OCD of making everything neat. Because there was little interest in them or they did not have a clear-cut answer, they did not get a lot of votes, either. </p><p>Later I switched to answering new questions. These get more eyballs and engagement, as the small group of active, daily users is looking at this category. However, most of the obvious questions für D&D 5e have long been asked, so these were mostly Homebrew Reviews, obscure rules corner cases, or 3.5, Pathfinder which I stopped playing long ago and Pathfinder 2, which I never played (but had good online rules books). This worked a lot better if you care about votes and had the nice effect that I learned about other games from looking up what the rules said. </p><p>The most popular are answers that deal with social interactions, because everyone can relate to them and have an opinion on them. These often get [Good Answer] badges for more than 25 votes. Of course, positive feedback instead of nothing felt good, too. </p><p>Also successful are simple, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200204/sleep-schedule-for-goblins/200207#200207">clear rules answers</a>, a short rules quote with some explanation, so it fits on one screen. These answers were successful in spite of being boring -- or maybe <i>especially </i>for being so, because then they are easy to verify as correct. These often become the single, accepted answer. </p><p>Sometimes answers got downvoted to a negative score because people did not like them even when they were technically correct, or because they were answers to questions some highly active people want to close instead of getting answered, and so they downvoted to punish you for answering, independent of how correct or good the answer is. The best way around this I found is to say up front the DM is free to rule differently, but it is not always enough.</p><h3 style="text-align: left;">My curated answers</h3><p>Because of these effects, sorting answers by vote is not a great way to find interesting answers. And because this site here is <i>mine</i>, here is a list that reflects my take on the most interesting or memorable answers (out of the 888 total answers I posted at the time I wrote this):</p><div><b>DM Techniques</b> -- the core of DMing. Not game system specific, although there may be some influence. </div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202784/how-to-stop-a-hexcrawl-from-becoming-repetitive/202792#202792">Using random encounters</a> @nitsua60 with a great answer, gifted us bounties.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196638/as-a-dm-how-can-i-address-players-frustration-with-in-game-decision-making/196656#196656">Creating the story with the players, instead of railroading</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/204167/whats-a-clock-and-how-do-i-use-one/204168#204168">Using a clock to drive the action</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/199186/75095">Implementing a creature with a vulnerable point</a> with 2 different, high scoring answers</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/197586/how-to-run-tactical-combat-on-the-plane-of-air/197697#197697">How to run aerial combat</a> two bounties, from @linksassin and @lfusaso</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91258/is-there-a-rule-for-how-to-handle-creative-use-of-spells/196763#196763">Allowing it once</a>, to have a fast flowing game without setting expoitable precendent</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195854/can-a-frightened-controlled-mount-be-made-to-move-closer-to-the-source-of-its-fe/195865#195865">Curb munchkinism expoiting the rules</a>, use real-world sense for mundane interactions</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/172619/how-can-i-make-players-still-feel-rewarded-after-looting-a-dragon-hoard/200110#200110">Big treasures</a>, and how to keep the game interersting afterwards</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201092/how-to-create-a-magic-trap-on-fabric/201098#201098">DM not bound by PC mechanics</a> in building dungeons and NPCs</li></ul></div><p><b>Fundamental Rule / Term Defintions</b>. Creatures and objects definition up all the time in interpreting rules, mostly because they lack. I refinned these answers as I learned more. </p><p></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47254/what-is-the-definition-of-creature-and-is-it-used-consistently/198112#198112">What is a creature</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/174239/is-a-soul-or-spirit-a-creature/198068?r=SearchResults&s=2%7C34.4711#198068">is a soul a creature</a>, and how to deal with displaced souls for effects that work on creatures -- will you reach a <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198094/who-do-you-reach-with-sending-when-the-targets-soul-is-in-another-body/198106#198106">displaced soul with sending</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198314/do-the-jar-and-the-catatonic-body-in-magic-jar-count-as-objects-or-creatures/198316#198316">Magic Jar</a>.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/95532/what-is-considered-an-object/198303#198303">Object</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/127636/when-is-an-object-made-of-other-objects/198643#198643">composed object</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/204035/is-a-container-full-of-objects-a-valid-target-for-the-enlarge-reduce-spell/204036#204036">containers</a> as objects, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196209/how-to-tell-size-category-of-an-object/196212#196212">object sizes</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196422/how-much-would-a-door-weigh/196425#196425">object weight </a>, are <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/197277/can-i-light-up-honey-or-other-non-solid-objects-with-the-light-cantrip/197282#197282">liquids objects</a>?</li></ul><p><b>Real-world medieval history and game economy</b>. These are among the most interesting to research, as you learn something about the real world.</p><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47604/without-a-magic-item-economy-what-is-gold-for/195776#195776">Without a magic item economy, what is gold for?</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/61840/how-much-is-a-gold-piece-really-worth/200852#200852">Value of a gold piece</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196896/what-is-highest-damage-gp-poison/196898#196898">Poison damage per gp</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200389/how-much-does-it-cost-to-manufacture-a-conductor-stone/200394#200394">How much does it cost to manufacture a conductor stone?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/154985/how-much-does-a-road-cost-how-about-town-walls/198209#198209">Roads, castles</a>, cost of </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201403/do-lifestyle-expenses-alter-by-the-number-of-people-in-a-family/201408#201408">Lifestyle Expenses</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199660/how-many-hexes-do-the-different-kinds-of-settlements-take-up-on-province-scale-m/199661#199661">Size of Settlements</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203034/what-do-mailed-letters-look-like-in-the-forgotten-realms/203037#203037">Mailed letters</a> </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/200016/75095">Barrel fitting</a> (@trish made a fantastic answer)</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199376/what-would-be-a-good-fantasy-disinfectant-antiseptic-is-it-necessary/199378#199378">Disinfectants</a></li><li>Spellbook <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/79174/can-a-wizard-use-a-25gp-book-as-a-replacement-spellbook/197175#197175">replacement</a>, number of <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57141/how-is-the-number-of-spells-limited-in-a-spellbook/197188#197188">spells per spellbook</a>, </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/145092/making-attacks-through-a-cage-shaped-forcecage/202340#202340">Arrow and Bolt sizes </a>vs Forcecage</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200882/do-siege-weapons-have-a-maximum-rate-of-fire/200886#200886">Siege weapon </a>rate of fire</li></ul><b>Adjudicating fundamentally murky or flawed areas in the rules</b>. There are parts of the rules that are not well designed, like the magic item rarity to power or sensible prices, or the rules about creature space in combat.<br /><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/133262/why-is-the-ring-of-warmth-only-an-uncommon-item/203788#203788">Magic item rarity</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199484/does-the-bugbears-sneaky-trait-always-apply-fitting-into-small-places-when-la/199485#199485">Does the Bugbears "Sneaky" trait always apply?</a> Initially exploring the space rules in combat. </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202309/what-happens-when-a-pc-being-infested-with-rot-grubs-chooses-to-wild-shape-into/202313#202313">Wild Shape and Rot Grubs?</a> Parasites</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199168/are-alcoholism-and-drug-addiction-curable-diseases/199169#199169">Is alcoholism a curable disease?</a> Friendly co-answering with @Kirt</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199142/resting-during-travel/199148#199148">Travel speed and rest</a>, and another one on <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201158/is-a-phantom-steed-affected-by-terrain/201159#201159">Phantom Steed</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200019/can-a-character-draw-a-potion-from-another-persons-backpack-and-administer-it-i/200023#200023">Pulling an object from your backpack</a> with a simple object interaction</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196484/what-happens-when-a-wall-of-force-spell-is-created-in-the-area-of-a-previously/196492#196492">Area of effect of ongoing spell effects</a>, using the example of casting a wall of force into them.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/79095/what-actions-bonus-actions-or-reactions-can-a-character-perform-out-of-outsid/198616#198616">Actions Outside of Combat</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200459/does-a-carried-creature-get-brought-along-when-teleporting-using-the-echo-knig/200465#200465">Are carried creatures equipment?</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202289/what-would-be-a-good-ruling-for-grabbing-carrying-dropping-a-pc-in-a-bat/202301#202301">Carrying and grappling</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/132912/can-characters-who-cant-see-move-through-an-area-just-as-easily-as-characters-w/199306#199306">Running blindly</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/74576/what-happens-with-the-drows-poisoned-weapons-when-picked-up-by-a-pc/196955#196955">Monster weapons with special effects</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/133767/which-uses-of-bonus-action-spellcasting-are-legal/198830#198830">Bonus Action spells</a> Core rules say 1 cantrip, Xanathar changes it to cantrips</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/171978/what-must-a-spell-scroll-look-like/196791#196791">Look of a spell scroll</a>, the correct answer by the rules. @nautarch assigned a 500 bounty, then retracted it. Example of where people dislike the rule, and therefore dislike the answer telling them what the rule says. </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/202714/does-the-disintegrate-spell-permanently-destroy-alyxian-the-hunter/202717#202717">Specific beats general</a> there are a few questions where my answer was up against one by @thomasmarkov. He can be very convincing, so these were always interesting. This one went to me.</li></ul></div><p><b>Sharing useful experience on PC tactics and shenanigans</b></p><p></p><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201849/how-to-survive-level-1-as-a-wizard/201853#201853">How do you survive level 1 as a wizard?</a> Good general wizard know-how.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201915/how-to-defend-allies-as-a-fighter-at-level-1/201918#201918">How to defend allies as a Fighter at level 1?</a> Ditto.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195670/what-countermeasures-protect-against-power-word-kill/195685#195685">What countermeasures protect against Power Word Kill?</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201895/how-can-i-make-an-ageless-warlock/201902#201902">How do I make an ageless warlock?</a> All the different ways to become immortal in the game.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195779/how-can-a-party-move-10-000-pounds-of-gold/195784#195784">Moving 10,000 gp of gold</a> A lot of calculations and Floating Disk</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196169/how-can-i-bind-a-draconic-spirit/198549#198549">Getting a dragon</a> Answered three different ways, none downvoted.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/204210/looking-for-a-dm-solution-to-a-squishy-group/204217#204217">Helping a weak, low level group</a> The downvotes are bunk. These methods work.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201223/whats-the-best-big-gun-3rd-level-spell-outside-the-schools-of-transmutation-a/201226#201226">Whats the best big gun 3rd level spell?</a> Sharing play stats</li></ul><div><b>Game History</b></div></div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200136/in-which-editions-of-dd-have-druids-been-able-to-wild-shape-into-owlbears/200138#200138">In which editions of D&D have druids been able to Wild Shape into owlbears?</a> This got a 500 bounty by SE's top contributor, @KRyan. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199603/in-which-editions-is-it-possible-for-dd-druids-to-shapeshift-wild-shape-and-bre/199612#199612">In which editions can you breed in animal form?</a> is similar, somehow people are curious about how wild shape changed over time.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/175011/what-events-are-depicted-in-these-frescos-from-the-shield-of-the-hidden-lord-d/197313#197313">Shield of the Hidden Lord</a> This was a long-unanswered one, the last one standing. I contacted the published author, and they were kind and did answer! @consus gifted 50 rep to it.</li></ul><div><b>Optimization and Balance</b>. These questions look at the game mechanics and expected outcomes for optimal results, and often took a lot of work and number crunching. Answering them drove some of my own questions in turn.</div></div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><b><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195974/what-is-the-most-damage-you-can-do-as-a-17th-level-fighter-in-5e/196000#196000">Most Damage with a 17th level Fighter</a> </b>This was the first min-max question for me, and I spent days refining it in friendly collaborative back and forth with @goodguy5 who had the other answer, which was a nice experience, and learned a lot about optimization math. Icing on the cake was that @someone_evil ran a Monte-Carlo simulation, improving the answer further.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196274/does-this-nerf-to-the-sharpshooter-feat-make-it-too-weak-or-unbalanced/196286#196286">Nerfing Sharpshooter</a> Exploration of the mathemetical impact of sharpshooter, took days</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201479/statistically-when-should-you-wait-to-use-sneak-attack-on-a-second-attack-with/201480#201480">Statistically, when should you wait to use Sneak Attack on a second attack with advantage?</a> Impact of criticals, crit ranges, advantage, disadvantage. Lots of work.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198817/do-bonuses-to-ac-stack/198835#198835">Stacking AC bonuses</a> made me learn about rules for combining game effects. </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/46565/what-methods-exist-to-get-your-ac-higher-than-20-without-magic-items/199953#199953">How to increase AC over 20 without magic items</a> is a good example for the late answer effect. The very old, accepted answer has a lower AC, fewer methods, and many times the votes.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/91295/does-the-number-of-spells-at-a-wizards-disposal-affect-game-balance/198685#198685">Does the number of spells at a Wizard's disposal affect game balance?</a></li></ul><div><b>Statistics. </b>These came out of the optimization questions, as you need to make assumptions about hit rates, number of encounters (assuming short rests in between), etc. </div></div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/159563/is-there-an-accepted-likelihood-of-hitting-that-is-consistent-across-tiers-and/196583#196583"><b>Is there an accepted likelihood of hitting that is consistent across tiers, and how has it been determined?</b></a> Useful for optimization questions, looking at this from various angles. </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199438/how-long-can-my-character-survive-without-sleep/199439#199439">Surviving without Sleep against Nightmare</a> After original ballparking, followed @Someone_evil's lead and spent a couple hours to program a simulation to work it out</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/95624/average-ac-of-monsters-per-cr/200107#200107">Average monster AC per CR</a> based on all the work here but somewhat plain</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201765/whats-the-most-common-language-shared-by-those-who-dont-speak-common/201767#201767">Most often used languages</a> A lot of list intersecting on the command line for this one. But this was yet not the best answer to the question!</li></ul><div><div><b>Glyph of Warding and Portals.</b> <i>Glyph</i> breaks how normal spellcasting works. I tagged questions with glyph for the [Taxonomist] badge, but accidentally flooded the "front page" doing so. The tag was removed for [spell][trap], which does not capture these uses of glyph. I later created a tag for [portals]. which has been used independently, and in the end <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/portals">got there</a>. </div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203757/can-a-bard-who-takes-contingency-at-14th-level-use-spell-glyphs-to-contingency-r/203760#203760">Combining Contingency and Glyph</a>, Glyph <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/148065/can-a-demon-summoned-by-the-summon-greater-demon-spell-be-summoned-into-and-cont/196771#196771">to summon demons</a>, glyph compared <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199307/do-i-understand-the-difference-between-the-two-versions-of-symbol-and-why-would/199311#199311">to symbol</a>, <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/146878/can-a-bard-use-the-spell-glyph-option-of-the-glyph-of-warding-spell-and-cast-a-k/203436#203436">Glyph and storable spells</a>, triggering out of a <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196934/can-a-glyph-of-warding-target-a-creature-through-a-portable-hole/196941#196941">Portable Hole</a>, </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/125752/are-you-considered-out-of-range-of-spells-and-weapons-when-inside-the-hole-of-a/200680#200680">Portable hole</a>, locating portals with <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/201167/could-locate-object-be-used-to-locate-a-portal/201172#201172">locate object</a>, using <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/102715/how-might-a-character-transport-hundreds-of-thousands-of-gold-inconspicuously/195809#195809">demiplane as a transport</a>, contact <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/145634/can-i-see-through-my-familiars-senses-communicate-with-my-familiar-if-they-are/201333#201333">through portals</a>, nature of <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/105928/is-the-pocket-dimension-a-familiar-goes-into-a-demiplane-or-an-extradimensiona/202417#202417">pocket dimensions</a>.</li></ul></div></div></div><div><b>Individual Spells</b></div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><b><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/131054/what-are-the-limitations-of-the-circumstance-i-can-choose-to-trigger-the-conti/195604#195604">Circumstances for Contingency</a> </b>This was one of my very first answers, adressing the myriad questions associated with that spell, and the friendly reception by @jack made a big difference </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/144946/how-does-initiative-work-when-teleporting-into-combat/198140#198140">Teleport and Initiative</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195112/if-the-caster-of-the-unseen-servant-spell-is-more-than-60-feet-away-when-giving/195591#195591">Unseen Servant doing the dishes</a>. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/197169/what-mechanics-allow-you-to-target-an-unseen-servant/197171#197171">targeting</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/51263/can-wizards-have-familiars-without-the-use-of-the-find-familiar-spell/198640?r=SearchResults&s=3%7C28.7552#198640">Find Familiar</a>. I answered over 50 questions about this spell</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195968/are-creatures-under-the-effect-of-the-minimus-containment-version-of-the-impriso/195972#195972">Imprisonment </a>Minimus Containment - so cute!</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196333/is-there-precedent-for-how-players-identify-the-capabilities-of-artifacts-outsi/196345#196345">Identify vs artifacts</a> still works...</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203661/can-i-switch-the-monks-astral-projection-spell-in-the-empty-body-feature-with-s/203662#203662">Astral Projection vs Plane Shift</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/197454/why-use-clairvoyance-when-find-familiar-is-better-in-every-way-except-range/199899#199899">Clairvoyance</a></li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196541/protective-bond-otiluke-s-resilient-sphere-combo-how-to-rule/196542#196542">Resilient Sphere</a> vs teleportation</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/200790/does-the-wristpocket-spell-allow-a-bead-from-the-chronurgy-wizards-arcane-abeya/202252#202252">Wristpocket and Arcane Abeyance</a> This one got a 200 bounty from @thomasmarkov</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/145586/is-the-mordenkainens-sword-spell-underpowered/202909#202909">Modenkainen's Sword</a>, making a case for discovery vs the fetish for perfect balance</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/50660/when-a-wizard-with-the-war-caster-feat-carrying-a-shield-casts-the-shield-spell/198837#198837">Shield spell</a> not stacking with shield. My most downvoted answer, as I wrote this at -12. I think it is technically correct, it makes narrative sense, and it also is wiser for play balance. But people clearly do <i>want</i> to stack their shield and the spell.</li></ul><div><b>Helping others</b>. There are cases where a question gets shut down because someone does not know how to answer it <i>themselves</i>, and therefore deems it unanswerable, or pressures the asker to ask a question <i>they </i>rather would answer.</div></div><p></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199222/what-percentage-of-call-of-cthulhu-characters-start-drowning-on-average/199388#199388">What percentage of Call of Cthulhu characters start drowning on average?</a> This is a prime example. It took me a reading of all the relevant new CoC rules and a lot of number crunching to help. Others just told him it's a stupid question, but he had been told so and it still was important to him. This got me a bounty of 300. I also answered <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/199718/is-there-a-system-for-determining-the-difficulty-of-a-combat-encounter-with-a-mo/199795#199795">another question for him</a> for another 400.</li></ul><p></p><div><b>Other Odds and Ends</b></div><div><ul><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/46565/what-methods-exist-to-get-your-ac-higher-than-20-without-magic-items/199953#199953">Council Voting in Waterdeep</a> this lore qeustion meant poring over lots of old books from first, second, third, and fourth edition, as 5th does not have a lot. A lot of the text was reused there. </li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/203279/is-my-college-of-poems-bard-subclass-balanced/203286#203286">College of Poems bard</a> One of the many homebrew reviews. I had fun answering in rhyme. @shadowranger, with the accepted highly-voted answer was a great sport and defended it.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/82670/are-a-wizards-spells-known-what-they-have-in-their-spellbook-or-what-they-can/197248#197248">Spells known and Wizards</a> This one is memorable because @non_novelist granted a 500 point bounty on it. Unfortunately, he could not deal with how the stack was run, and got banned.</li><li><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/204137/what-are-all-the-ways-to-change-my-attack-rolls-ability-modifier/204138#204138">Using alternate ability scores for attack</a> just a useful collection.</li></ul></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-23475743420827695572022-12-22T09:39:00.022-08:002023-08-08T23:06:49.770-07:00How Stupid is the Monster?<p>It is very hard to correctly play a monster that has a much higher intelligence than you, the DM. But it should be possible to correctly play a monster that is more stupid than a normal human. Unfortunately the game does not provide guidance on what the different ability scores translate to, but we can try to construct some benchmarks based on real world animals and their mental capabilities, and the intelligence scores assigned to their in-game beast versions. Here is our informal intelligence checklist:</p><p></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Can it remember things out of sight?</li><li>Can it understand quantities or count?</li><li>Can it understand cause and effect?</li><li>Can it use tools?</li><li>Can it create tools?</li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Can it learn by experimenting?</li><li>Can it imitate others to learn?</li><ul></ul><li>Can it transfer learned concepts to new problems?</li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Can it cooperate with others to achieve goals?</li><li>Can it use gestures or words to communicate?</li><li>Can it speak a language? </li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Can it understand the intentions or mind of others?</li><li>Can it practice and suspect deception?</li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Can it form short term plans?</li><li>Can it form long-term plans?</li></ul><div><br /></div><p></p>
<table border="1" style="border-collapse: collapse;" valign="top">
<tbody><tr>
<th><b>Int</b></th>
<th><b>Example Monster (Monster Manual)</b></th>
<th><b>Capabilities</b></th>
</tr><tr>
<td>1</td>
<td><b>Vermin</b>: Insects,Spiders, Crustaceans, Oozes, Slimes, Sharks</td>
<td>The minimal value (there are no creaturs with Intelligence 0). These creatures act purely on instinct, with no reasoning whatsoever. They will stupidly attack, or maybe if the opponent seems to be large, try to flee. There is <b>no learning</b>. </td>
</tr><tr>
<td>2</td>
<td><b>"Normal" Animal</b>: rat, bat, deer, boar, bear, cattle, eagle, hyena, pony, owl, horse etc.</td>
<td>These animals are driven by instinct and form no long term plans or reasoning, but they can with patience be thaught certain tricks, and can get to trust a keeper. There is <b>slow learning</b>, of very simple things, and no transfer outside of the exact thing that is learned. A rat for example, can learn to push a button for food.</td>
</tr><tr>
<td>3</td>
<td><b>"Smart" Animal</b>: felines and dogs (cat, panther, tiger, lion, wolf, mastiff, hyena), killer whale, octopus, elephant, Zombie</td>
<td>This is theoretically the minimum a player character could roll, so the minimum range for a functioning human, althugh I think it would be very hard to have a functioning PC that is that dumb, if you play it that dumb - for example, these are typically too stupid to use language or tools, which pretty much makes a character unplayable. <br /><br />These animals are smart enough to work out <b>simple cause and effect</b>, like how to open a door, and they can <b>coordinate with each other</b> when fighting a common foe. They can <b>remember things that are out of sight</b>, short term, but <b>use no tools</b>. They have <b>no own language</b>. </td>
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<td>4</td>
<td><b>"Monkey" Level</b><br />Baboon, Velociraptor, Giant Octopus and Weasel</td><td>These animals are smart enough to not feel entirely like animals any more. They can use <b>simple tools</b>, <b>work together</b>, use <b>rudimentary language </b>and can be outright cunning.</td>
</tr><tr>
<td>5</td><td><b>"Ape" Level<br /></b> Wyvern, Ogre, Hill Giant, Mimic, Hill Giant, Girallon</td>
<td>Here we are leaving the level of animal intelligence for good, and get into the lowest level of thinking, stone-dumb humanoids with the ability to reason. They can <b>imitate others,</b> learning by observation. Ogre and hill giant at least already make <b>regular use of simple tools</b>, and have a <b>spoken language </b>in giant. In general, these creatures are unable to grasp any complex concept, <b>cannot be reasoned with based on any longer term considerations </b>beyond their immediate desires, are <b>easy to fool and deceive</b>, and act stupidly. <br />(Given how human-like they are in both published modules and folklore, the Ogre and Hill Giant would better be placed at Int 6 than 5). </td></tr><tr><td>6</td>
<td><b>"Bestial Human" level<br /></b>Ape, Boggle, Ettin, Gnoll, Minotaur, Quaggoth, Displacer Beast, Hell Hound, Mummy, Skeleton, Troglodytes</td><td>Thinking beings with strong beast-likes traits or origin that still come though in their behaviour, making them less than human.They <b>use tools normally, </b>can speak and understand a <b>language, </b>and <b>coordinate actions</b>.They still struggle to consider other's intentions and are <b>somewhat easily deceived</b>. These creatures <b>can aleady be reasoned with based upon promises of future rewards</b>, but are <b>not smart enough to formulate their own long-term plans</b>, at best a few days ahead. They may form tribes or groups, but not societies.<br />(Apes are too high at 6, considering that real world apes do not have full language and very limited tool use They should be Int 5)</td></tr><tr><td>7</td>
<td><b>"Simpleton" level</b><br />Bullywug, Ghoul, Lizardfolk, Orc, Troll, Winter Wolf, Worg</td>
<td>These creatures can be intelligent enough to <b>form societies</b>. The can <b>speak multiple languages</b>,<b> </b>can use <b>equimpent, </b> can <b>decieve and lie</b>, can suspect <b>deception</b>, but still <b>may be duped </b>quite easily. They can formulate <b>simple longer term goals</b>. At this level, creatures start to become so intelligent that the monster manual rather considers their goals, customs and society, than talking about intelligence directly. Orcs certainly are also smart enough to<b> craft items</b>. <br /><br /></td></tr><tr><td>8</td>
<td><b>"Dumb" level</b><br />PC baseline, Cyclops, Bugbear, Yeti, Kobold, Magmin, Thri-Kreen</td>
<td>This is the lowest a point-buy PC will get on intelligence, so probably a good number for a slightly dumb character. They can <b>craft, trade, lie, learn, imitate, speak several languages, suspect deceit and form long-term plans</b>, but they just do it a little less well and have a bit of difficulty with it. Clearly not the brightest, still somewhat easily manipulated. <br /></td>
</tr><tr>
<td><br /></td><td></td><td><br /></td></tr>
</tbody></table>See also: https://dmdave.com/monster-abilities-intelligence/<br /><h3 style="text-align: left;">Animal Intelligence</h3><div>Outside of the game intelligence is defined as</div><div><blockquote><p>The ability to learn, reason, think abstractly, and adapt to new situations. </p></blockquote><p>It typically is measured by using tests. Tests used to assess intelligence in animals are:</p><p>1. <b>Mirror self-recognition</b>: This test is used to assess whether an animal is able to recognize itself in a mirror. </p><p>2. <b>Problem-solving </b>tasks: These tasks involve presenting an animal with a problem that it must solve in order to obtain a reward. Examples of problem-solving tasks include the use of tools to retrieve food or the ability to find food in a maze.</p><p>3. <b>Memory </b>tasks: These tasks involve presenting an animal with a stimulus and then measuring its ability to remember the stimulus after a delay. For example, an animal might be shown the location of food and then be required to remember the location after a period of time has passed.</p><p>4. <b>Communication </b>tasks: These tasks involve measuring an animal's ability to communicate with humans or other animals through the use of vocalizations, gestures, or other means.</p><p>5. <b>Social cognition </b>tasks: These tasks involve measuring an animal's ability to understand and respond to the social cues and behaviors of other animals. For example, an animal might be tested on its ability to follow the gaze of another animal or to recognize the facial expressions of other animals.</p><p><a href="https://synapsida.blogspot.com/2013/10/how-clever-is-baboon.html">From Synapsida</a><b>: Physical intelligence </b>refers to the ability to understand <b>concepts of space, quantity, and causality</b>. As an example for spacial intelligence (including remembering things out of sight), if I place a piece of food under a cup on a table, and then rotate the table 180 degrees, can you remember which cup the food is under? For quantity, can I tell that five is better than four of something -- and how large do the numbers need to be before I cannot any more? Causal intelligence includes tool use.</p><p><b>Social intelligence </b>deals with how creatures relate with one another. Tests look at whether the creature can <b>learn by imitating </b>others, whether it can understand <b>gestural communication</b>, such as pointing, and whether they can <b>understand the intentions </b>of others. At a higher level come constructs like undertanding works and language.</p><b>Animal Quotes for Cats, Dogs (Int 3)</b><div><ul><li>Cats have object permanence recognition, awareness of objects that aren't directly visible. Cats are able to hold an object in mind and reason where it may be. </li><li>Cats learn by observation and doing. Examples include opening doors, ringing bells and turning on light switches.</li><li>Dogs readily learn the names of objects and can retrieve an item from among many when given its name.</li><li>Dogs are able to interpret phrases such as "fetch the sock" by its component words (rather than considering its utterance to be a single word). This performance is comparable to that of 3-year-old humans.</li><li>Dogs feel emotions like jealousy and anticipation.</li><li>Dogs learn by making inferences in a similar way as children.</li><li>Dogs have the ability to train themselves and learn from watching other dogs.</li><li>Dogs demonstrate a theory of mind by engaging in deception (considering what another creature is thinking or wants).</li></ul></div><div><b>Animal Quotes for Monkeys (Int 4)</b></div><div><ul><li>Baboons have been found to decipher elements of language, understanding words in a sequence.</li><li>Baboons are unable to learn by imitating a human experimenter.</li><li>Baboons are better than the apes in following the gaze of humans. Perhaps, since they live in large groups, social intelligence is more important to baboons.</li><li>Some monkeys failed miserably on tool use, unable to comprehend the idea of reaching for things with sticks. Crab-eating macaques do use basic tools in the wild - they whack crabs with stones to open them.</li></ul></div><div><b>Animal Quotes for Apes (should be Int 5)</b><div><div><ul><li>Do as well as 2-year old children on measures of 'physical' intelligence. Children were able to beat them on the social tasks. </li><li>Simple tools are used: Chimpanzees “fish” for termites and ants with probes made of sticks or vines. They crack nuts with stones, roots, and wood as hammers or anvils, and use a handful of folded leaves or moss to drink water. Sticks are used to inspect dead snakes or other unfamiliar objects that might be dangerous. Leaves are used in wiping the mouth or soiled body parts.</li><li>Younger animals learn tool-using behaviours from their elders.</li><li>Chimpanzees can use sign language or languages based on the display of tokens or pictorial symbols.</li><li>Chimps are incredibly selfish by human standards, and have a hard time cooperating to solve a problem.</li></ul></div></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><h3>Monster Intelligence</h3></div><div><b>Example monster quotes for Int 3</b><br /><br /><div>Zombie</div><div><br /></div><div>The zombie in particular seems more stupid than a smart animal, but their disregard of self-preservation may be due to their undead nature. It might still figure out how to open a door, eventually. </div><div><ul><li>Zombies take the most direct route to any foe, unable to comprehend obstacles, tactics, or dangerous terrain. A zombie might stumble into a fast-flowing river to reach foes on a far shore, clawing at the surface as it is battered against rocks and destroyed. To reach a foe below it, a zombie might step out of an open window. Zombies stumble through roaring infernos, into pools of acid, and across fields littered with caltrops without hesitation.</li><li>A zombie can follow simple orders and distinguish friends from foes, but its ability to reason is limited to shambling in whatever direction it is pointed, pummeling any enemy in its path. A zombie armed with a weapon uses it, but the zombie won't retrieve a dropped weapon or other tool until told to do so.</li></ul></div><div><b>Example monster quotes for Int 5</b><br /></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div>Ogre<br /><ul><li>Few ogres can count to ten, even with their fingers in front of them. Most speak only a rudimentary form of Giant and know a smattering of Common words.</li><li>Ogres believe what they are told and are easy to fool or confuse, but they break things they don't understand. Silver-tongued tricksters who test their talents on these savages typically end up eating their eloquent words-and then being eaten in turn.</li><li>Ogres clothe themselves in animal pelts and uproot trees for use as crude tools and weapons. They create stone-tipped javelins for hunting.</li></ul>Hill Giant<ul><li>Their weapons are uprooted trees and rocks.</li><li>With no culture of their own, hill giants ape the traditions of creatures they manage to observe for a time before eating them. They don't think about their own size and strength, however. Tribes of hill giants attempting to imitate elves have been known to topple entire forests by trying to live in trees.</li><li>In conversation, hill giants are blunt and direct, and they have little concept of deception. A hill giant might be fooled into running from another giant if a number of villagers cover themselves in blankets and stand on one another's shoulders holding a giant-painted pumpkin head. Reasoning with a hill giant is futile, although clever creatures can sometimes encourage a giant to take actions that benefit them</li></ul></div><div><b>Example Monster qutoes for Int 6</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div>Skeletons</div><div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Skeletons are able to accomplish a variety of relatively complex tasks.</li><li>Because of their literal interpretation of commands and unwavering obedience, skeletons adapt poorly to changing circumstances.</li><li>A skeleton can fight with weapons and wear armor, can load and fire a catapult or trebuchet, scale a siege ladder, form a shield wall, or dump boiling oil. However, it must receive careful instructions explaining how such tasks are accomplished.</li><li>Skeletons aren't mindless. Rather than break its limbs attempting to batter its way through an iron door, a skeleton tries the handle first. If that doesn't work, it searches for another way through or around the obstacles</li></ul></div><div>Mimic</div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Although most mimics have only predatory intelligence, a rare few evolve greater cunning and the ability to carry on simple conversations in Common or Undercommon. Such mimics might allow safe passage through their domains or provide useful information in exchange for food.</li></ul></div><div>Minotaur</div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Apart from ambushing creatures that wander into its labyrinth, a minotaur cares little for strategy or tactics.</li></ul></div><div>Troglodyte</div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Simpleminded Brutes. Troglodytes have a simple, communal culture devoted almost entirely to procuring food. Too simple to plan more than a few days into the future, troglodytes rely on constant raids and hunting to survive.</li><li>They understand the value of metal weapons and armor, and fight among one another for the right to have such items.</li></ul></div><div>Ettin</div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>An ettin isn't particularly loyal to its orc handlers, but the orcs can win it over with the promise of food and loot.</li></ul></div></div></div><div><b>Example Monster quotes for Int 7</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Bullywug<ul><li>Bullywugs overwhelm opponents with superior numbers when they can, but flee from serious threats to search for easier prey.</li><li>Bullywugs introduce themselves with grand-sounding titles, make great shows of bowing and debasing themselves before their superiors, and endlessly vie to win their superiors' favor. A bullywug has two ways to advance among its kind. It can either murder its rivals, though it must take pains to keep its criminal deeds secret, or it can find a treasure or magic item and present it as tribute or a token of obeisance to its liege.</li><li>Captives are dragged before the king or queen - a bullywug of unusually large size - and forced to beg for mercy. Bribes, treasure, and flattery can trick the bullywug ruler into letting its captives go, but not before it tries to impress its "guests" with the majesty of its treasure and its realm</li></ul>Ghoul<br /><ul><li>Whereas ghouls are little more than savage beasts, a ghast is cunning and can inspire a pack of ghouls to follow its commands. [This does not fit the Intelligence given -- savage beasts would be 2, a pack following commands, 3 or 4.]</li></ul>Winter Wolf<br /><ul><li>Winter wolves communicate with one another using growls and barks, but they speak Common and Giant well enough to follow simple conversations</li></ul>Worg<br /><ul><li>Cunning and malevolent, (...) Worgs speak in their own language and Goblin, and a few learn to speak Common as well.</li></ul><b>Example Monster quotes for Int 8</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Cyclops <br /><ul><li>A cyclops that gains direct benefit from some site of divine power, or which is threatened by a supernatural force or creature, will pay homage as long as the benefit or threat remains.</li><li>Though they are reasonably intelligent, cyclopes live simple, reclusive lives, keeping herds of animals for food. They prefer to dwell alone or in small family groups, lairing in caves, ruins, or rough structures of dry stone construction they build themselves.</li><li>A cyclops lairs within a day's journey of other cyclopes, so that they can meet to trade goods or seek mates. They craft weapons and tools of wood and stone, but will use metal when they can find it. Although cyclopes understand the Giant tongue, they write nothing and speak little, using grunts and gestures for their interactions with each other.</li><li>Cyclopes aren't great thinkers or strategists. Slow to learn and bound to their traditional ways, they find innovation difficult. Although they are a terrifying threat in combat due to their size and strength, they can often be tricked by clever foes.</li></ul><div>Kobold</div><ul><li>Kobolds make up for their physical ineptitude with a cleverness for trap making and tunneling.</li></ul><div>Magmin</div><ul><li>Magmin: as simple elemental creations, they are oblivious to the harm their native element causes creatures of the Material Plane [this sounds pretty dumb, certainly not int 8, maybe 5].</li></ul></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Human Intelligence</h3>From here on up would be the range of "normal" (that is, point-buy) PC human intelligence. Some of the most well-known tests for human intelligence include the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS), the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC), the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale to assess intelligence in people of all ages, the Differential Ability Scales (DAS) to measure intelligence in children, and the Woodcock-Johnson Tests of Cognitive Abilities. All of them test similar things, typically<div><p></p><ol><li><b>Language</b>: Vocabulary, the knowledge of word meanings. Similarities, understand and use abstract concepts. Passage Comprehension, understand and interpret written material..</li><li><b>Visual</b>: analyze and synthesize visual information. Recognition: recognize and identify familiar objects in pictures. Patterns, for example reproduce a pattern from a choice of component patterns. Spatial, understand spatial relationships, imagine objects in 3D</li><li><b>Calculation: </b>perform basic arithmetic operations.</li><li><b>Sequencing</b>: infer rules of order and organize items</li><li><b>Weights</b>: understand and compare the relative weights of objects.</li><li><b>Social: </b>understand and use social conventions.</li><li><b>Memory</b>: remember and repeat sentences, lists of word or numbers</li><li><b>Processing Speed</b>: quickly and accurately discriminate between similar stimuli, proces auditory or visual information quickly. </li></ol><p></p></div></div></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-20076025899385647162022-08-27T13:54:00.004-07:002022-08-27T14:07:42.259-07:00Average Rounds of Combat in 5e<p>The number of combat rounds has a strong influcence on how costly it is to use an action, for example a spell that produces an effect for a minute, enough to last the whole fight: if the fight only takes three rounds, you will only benefit from it for two rounds. If the fight however takes eight rounds, you get seven rounds of benefit. </p><p><b>Three rounds</b> is assumed to be standard, because the DMG in the monster building rules (page 278) tells us:<br /></p><blockquote>If a monster's damage output varies from round to round, calculate its damage output each round for the first three rounds of combat, and take the average</blockquote><p>And on p.281, in the Monster Features section for factoring Regeneration in CR calculations:</p><p></p><blockquote>Increase the monster's effective hit points by 3 x the number of hit points the monster regenerates each round. </blockquote><p>Both indicate that the game seems to expect combat to take three rounds. </p><p>More importantly, this length is also supported by the amount of <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2022/08/combat-rounds-per-encounter-in-d-5e.html">damage characters deal</a> against the hit points of a an appropriate monster: a group of four would reduce such a monster to 0 hits in about three rounds. </p><p></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">A higher end of <b>five rounds</b> is based on <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/93183/how-many-rounds-does-the-average-combat-encounter-last">empirical data</a> at one specific table.</p><p>You often do not attack every round in every fight when you spending time to manoever or take cover, so the fight duration in rounds might increase, but the number of rounds where you fully attack may not. This would make for longer combat, but in a way that is not material for resource use math. </p><p>In my experience, larger and more deadly battles take longer, sometimes much longer, as opponents not only move around and jockey for cover, but as there are many more opponents and hit points to grind down, while small fights or fights against weaker opponents are over even faster. </p><p>In reality you will tend to <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2022/08/average-number-of-encounters-per-level.html">have fewer, deadlier encounters</a> than the DMG guidance suggests. Instead of 5 or so medium combats, you end up with only three deadly ones per day, sometimes even only a single really huge monster-ball battle. This will lead to longer combat in the wild than what the DMG math implies. </p><p>For these reasons, I think <b>four rounds per combat encounter</b> is a better average than three. </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-3167719843864714812022-08-27T02:26:00.024-07:002022-08-27T09:00:02.383-07:00Damage per round per Character level in D&D 5e<div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;">For monsters, we have the guidance of how much damage they deal on average in a round based on their CR from the DMG on page 274. In contrast, there is no such explicit guidance for expected PC damage output per round and level.</div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;">You can differentiate between <b>average damage </b>(without taking into account the probablity to hit, just the damage die on a hit, including chances to roll a critical, which is the damage number given for the monsters), and <b>expected damage</b> that factors in the probablilty to hit against a typical opponent AC. Both scale together, as the average probablity to hit <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/159563/is-there-an-accepted-likelihood-of-hitting-that-is-consistent-across-tiers-and">remains about 65% across all levels</a> without magic weapons. In the end is the expected damage that matters, so this is what we look at here. </div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><p><b>Expected Damage based on DMG combat guidance</b> </p></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;">One idea is to base this on the expected combat duration. The rules give monster hit points for a monster of a given challenge rating and XP value (page 274, DMG). Encounters for any given level have XP guidance, which we can use to pick an appropriate single monster -- typically one of a CR matching the average character level for medium encounters, or of a CR one or two higher for hard ones.² As we know how many hit points such a monster has, we can deduce how much damage each character must deal per round to kill it in a given number of rounds.</div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /><b>Expected Damage based on actual builds</b><br /><br />The other idea is to do this empirically: build various characters, and see how much damage they consistently can put out each round. </div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;">A <b>simple approximation </b>for damage per hit with this approach would be to assume that characters start start with +3 primary ability bonus and max that with ability score increases every four levels, and that they wield a weapon that deals 1d10 damage (either two handed verstatile weapons, or the average of higher damage d12 or 2d6 and lower damage d8 weapons typically used; few characters need to stoop to using d6 weapons).This results in average damage of 10 points per attack across the first ten levels, slightly lower (9 damage) during the first three levels of the range, and slightly higer (11 damage) during the last three, due to the increasing combat ability bonus. This translates into about <b>6-7 expected points of damage per attack, </b>and once characters get multiple attacks, a multiple of that. </div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><p>However, actual damage output output can vary wildly, both by character build, and by class -- some like wizard, rogue or paladin excel at nova-damage, pouring limited resources into big effects, others like fighter or barbarian are strong on sustained damage over time. </p><div>A <b>more realisistic approximation</b> therefore takes into accounts race and class abilities. The following chart summarizes the findings:</div></div></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://i.stack.imgur.com/E6sDb.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="background-color: #fffdf7; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: #232629; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: auto; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Average Damage per PC level" src="https://i.stack.imgur.com/E6sDb.png" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px; vertical-align: bottom;" /></a></p><b>Medium </b>and <b>Hard </b>refer to a Medium or Hard encounter four a group of 4 PCs. The Medium encounter asssumes a monster of the same CR as the average character level, the Hard encounter assumes a monster of one CR higher than the average character level.<br /><br />The number <b>3 </b>and number <b>4 </b>refer to three or four rounds of combat per encounter. Three rounds is assumed to be standard, because the DMG in the monster building rules (page 278) tells us:<br /><blockquote>If a monster's damage output varies from round to round, calculate its damage output each round for the first three rounds of combat, and take the average</blockquote><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Four rounds is based on <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/93183/how-many-rounds-does-the-average-combat-encounter-last">empirical data</a> at one specific table.<br /><br />The <b>Bottom 25%,</b> <b>Mid 50% </b>and <b>Top 75% </b>in contrast to this are the quartile averages from the <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/4i1dff/the_optimists_guide_to_dd_5e_damage_by_class_and/">Optimists' Guide to D&D 5E Damage by Class</a>. This is averaging damage per level for <i>360 different builds </i>in 13 classes and 48 subclasses. While it has to make some assumptions about hit rates and monster AC per level, those are <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/159563/is-there-an-accepted-likelihood-of-hitting-that-is-consistent-across-tiers-and/196583?r=SearchResults&s=3%7C24.3470#196583">well established</a>. This approach is orthogonal the first in that the calculations in Optimist do not depend on rounds per encounter, so it provides a great reality check. For the Mid 50% (average PCs) and Top 25% (high damage PCs), the graphic also provides a trend line with associated formula to estimate the approximate damage per level x.</p>Lastly, the <b>7 builds </b>line is from seven damage-focused builds without Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter (Champion and Battlemaster Fighter, Assassin Rogue, two different Hunter Rangers, Vengeance Paladin, Berserker Barbarian), made to compare to Optimist Guide as a check. </div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;">This assumes the same stat progression as in the simple approximation above, four combat rounds and five encounters per day to factor in damage from limited resources like spell slots, and short rest between fights. The battlemaster uses superiority dice for improved damage contribution from to hit, a rogue is assumed to be able to sneak attack, a ranger casts hunters mark the first round, and a paladin is using spell slots to smite each fight if possible. Other than Optimist, we excluded the Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter feats. They are complicated as they influence also the to-hit probablility and can optionally be employed depending on the opponents AC.<span style="font-size: x-small;">³</span></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /></div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;">It is unsurprising that it is a bit higher than the average of 90 above-average builds in Optimist, also because those do not as thoroughly include damage from limited use abilities, as far as I can tell. </div><div class="s-prose js-post-body" itemprop="text" style="--s-prose-line-height: 1.5; --s-prose-spacing-condensed: calc(var(--s-prose-spacing) / 2); --s-prose-spacing: 1.1em; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: var(--theme-post-body-font-family); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: var(--s-prose-line-height); margin: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 548px;"><br /><h3 style="text-align: left;">Conclusions</h3><div><br /></div><ul style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; list-style-image: initial; list-style-position: initial; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 30px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><li style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing-condensed); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><b>The average fight would take about 3 rounds</b>. Both against Hard and against Medium encounters, the XP based damage from assuming 3 rounds closely matches the average damage output from Optimist.</p></li><li style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing-condensed); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">If I had to simplify damage per level to a simple rule of thumb, it would be <b>level plus 7 damage </b>for a typical character (add another half level, rounded up, for high damage characters, or subtract it for low damage ones).</p></li><li style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing-condensed); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Damage per PC varies significantly, depending on build. You can have nearly a <b>factor of 2 difference between a high damage PC and a low damage one </b>across the entire spectrum of levels.</p></li><li style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing-condensed); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Five rounds as an assumption for an average fight would be high. Fights would require damage outputs even below the low end of the Optimist build spectrum to take that long, which seems improbable unless you have a dedicated pacificst party.</p></li><li style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing-condensed); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-wrap: break-word; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Builds optimized for damage could do a fair bit more than the 3-round combat encounter implies and may be able to end combat faster. The shorter the combat, the less damage the monsters can deal in return. Such groups might be better challenged with Deadly encounters.</p></li></ul><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border-color: initial; border-image: initial; border-style: initial; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: 1;">Always keep in mind these are merely averages. In any individual fight, the duration can vary greatly from the expected average: it can be over in the first round, or it can drag out for many, many rounds with sides taking cover, jockeying for position, reinforcements coming in and so on; and likewise the damage output per character can vary wildy with the wizard casting fireball one turn, fire bolt the other, the paladin critting one turn with maxium divine smite damage, and missing altoghether the other, an so forth.</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border-color: initial; border-image: initial; border-style: initial; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: 1;"><br /></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span></span></p><a name='more'></a><p></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="border-color: initial; border-image: initial; border-style: initial; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: 1;"><sup><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-size: 12px; font-style: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">1</span></span></sup></span><span style="font-family: inherit;"><span style="font-size: 15px; font-style: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"> </span><span style="font-style: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">This is pretty close but not quite exact. The chart below shows in blue where the XP for four characters to be gained equals the XP of the monster most closely (ratio as close to one as possible). If it was an ideal match, then the ratio would be 1 across the chart in the blue fields, and there would be no yellow fields, which show the Level=CR diagonal. You can see that after 10th level, it would be a better match to encounter a monster 1 CR lower than the party level.</span></span></span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://i.stack.imgur.com/4Lokp.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: auto; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="enter image description here" src="https://i.stack.imgur.com/4Lokp.png" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px; vertical-align: bottom;" /></a></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: x-small;">Here is the same chart for Hard encounters. You can see that after tier one, it would be a better match to encounter a monster 2 CRs higher than the average party level instead of one, and also that the best match of a single monster is sometimes more than 10% off.</span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-family: inherit; font-size: 15px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://i.stack.imgur.com/wcq6k.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; cursor: pointer; font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: auto; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="enter image description here" src="https://i.stack.imgur.com/wcq6k.png" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px; vertical-align: bottom;" /></a></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-family: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 15px;"><sup style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: 1; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">2</sup> </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">That the average damage from monster challenge rating scales near-perfect linearly with level is to be expected: hp per monster CR scale linearly by 15 points each level after 1st, until near the very end when it jumps up at level 19, which is where the slight uptick at the end comes from.</span></p></div><p style="text-align: left;"><sup style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-size: 12px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: normal; line-height: 1; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">3</sup><span style="font-size: 15px;"> </span><span style="font-size: x-small;">Assuming hits for characters with those feats, the average damage output would be about 20 plus level damage. (As I only made two builds, a variant human battlemaster fighter with greatsword and an variant human rogue with shortbow, the estimate here may not be as robust). The expected damage however will be not that much higher, as the lower to hit probability compensates.</span></p><div><br /></div><p></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-56477635414544358302022-08-27T01:04:00.003-07:002022-08-27T01:04:29.996-07:00In-Game Economy<p>An economy is a complex thing, becuase there are so many interacting agents. There is a reason economists have lots of complicated mathematical models. For a fantasy role playing game, where the goal is to have exciting stories and adventures, all you normally need is some prices for goods characters want to buy or sell, typically adventuring equipment, later on maybe costs for armies, and building keeps.</p><p>For selling it is useful to have a discount rate by item type: how much cheaper than what they sell it for would a merchant be willing to buy something for? You need this for the types of things the adventurers win in adventuring. I typically use</p><p></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><b>Coins: 95%</b> Obviously they can pay with 100% of the coin value, but if they want to exchange coin types, for example a heavy bag of 1,000 copper pieces for a platinum piece, there will be a money changer's fee of 5%. </li><li><b>Jewels: 95% </b>The same applies for exchanging coins into jewels for lighter transport. I allow to pay with jewels at full value, just as with coins, but you could charge a 5% discount even for that.</li><li><b>Trade goods: 80%</b>It does not make sense to buy goods at the same price you'd sell them, so instead of 100%, I give 80% for goods on the list of trade goods. This allows at least to reasonably have some level of trade, even if the value is still high. Bars of copper, silver or gold would be treated as coins or jewels at 100% to pay with, and 95% to exchange. </li><li><b>New weapons, armor and equipment</b>:<b> 50%</b> you need to find a merchant trading in them, and they will pay half price, if they are interested to buy. If the characters have too many items (say, hundreds of swords) that they will have a hard time selling again near term, they may only buy a limited amount or ask for a lower bulk price. Note that it is very rare to find new items -- maybe sometimes in a storage room or armory. Most items are being used. </li><li><b>Used weapons, armor and equipment:</b> <b>0-25%</b>Especially for monster derived weapons and armor, that would be ugly and not fit in style and balance to human needs, it often will be close to 0%. For equipment, or human weaopns it might be between 25%, most commonly I use 10%. </li><li><b>Art and Jewlery: 50% </b>This is a bit tricky, as Jewelry could be broken down into jewels and precious metals, that could be used to pay at 100% or 95%. However, the value of jewelry is often a multiple of that of the pure gem and metal value, due to the art and workmanship that went into them, just as a beatuiful painting is many times the value of the paints and canvas. I simple use the same 50% as for other goods. </li></ul><p></p><p>The economy in the game as described does not work, really -- for example trade goods always cost the same to buy and sell. If that were so, there would be no traders or merchants for them, because without a price difference and profit margin, they could not survive. Why would you pay for horses, carts, drivers to transport grain or metal wood somewhere, when you cannot sell it for more than what you bought it for? And why would you maintain a stall or shop doing so?</p><p>In a real economy, anything that is produced must be sold more dearly than what the input materials cost, an what the living costs of any labor to produce it cost, or it could not be produced in the long run -- the manufacturer would go bankrupt. </p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-8725178913021685682022-08-21T11:29:00.006-07:002022-08-27T00:44:57.716-07:00Setting prices for in-game economy<p><span style="font-family: inherit;">What should an item cost in the game that is not on the equipment table? </span></p><p>A naive approach is to see what it costs today and apply a conversion factor from modern time prices to gp. It is a pretty common question how much a gp would be worth in today's money. However industrial manufacturing, technology and automation has changed how much it costs to produce some things like clothing, but has little influenced others, like the cost to raise a living animal, so this approach will not work. </p><p>We'll first consider how much a gold piece might be worth on average to settle that, and then look at how to insread usefully determine the price of items in the game.</p><h3 style="text-align: left;">How much is a gold piece worth?</h3><div>Thre are at least two ways to determine a conversion factor for the value of a gp: the value of gold, or the value of a basket of goods you could buy with a piece of gold. </div><div><h4 style="text-align: left;">Value of gold as a commodity</h4><p>Maybe the least biased comparison for measuring the value based on a single good could be made using the price of gold itself? In the game, gold coins are made of gold, and 50 coins weigh one pound, so one pound of gold is worth 50 gp. The original purpose of minted coins was to guarantee purity and weight of material (although that was subsequently undermined by the nobles that could mint coins, to stretch their finances, as nicely detailed in <em>Wealth of Nations</em>).</p><p>The price of gold fluctuates in modern time as the gold standard has been given up. Money is not tied to gold at a fixed ratio any more. How much you pay for gold is entirely dependend on people believing how much it might be worth (or, conversely, how much the money might be worth). Typically the price of gold goes up when people distrust the value of money, and are looking for alternatives to store their wealth. While I am writing this, the value of one pound of gold is about 30,000 US$, which would mean one gp would be worth about 600 US$. <a href="https://goldprice.org/gold-price-chart.html">In the year 2000</a>, it was only about 4,800 US$, or about 100 US$/gp. </p></div><h4 style="text-align: left;">Value of a basket of goods</h4><p>You could caluclate <a href="https://www.wallstreetmojo.com/purchasing-power-parity-formula">purchasing power parity</a> across a basket of goods. For example, determine the current prices for all the items from the equipment list, and for each figure out how much the price ratio it, then average the resulting ratios. This will give you an average conversion factor for the gp across many goods. Unfortunately, because the factor differs so much depending on the nature of each individual item, using the average conversion leads to prices that would not reflect how much any given item should really cost.</p><p>For example, a spyglass costs 1,000 gp in the game and from about $25 in the modern world -- a ratio of 40 gp per US$. A <a href="https://www.thesprucepets.com/how-much-do-saddles-cost-1886241">hand-made riding saddle</a> costs 10 gp in the game and can cost thousands of US$ (prices ranging from about $500 to $4,000), so assuming $2,000, a ratio of 1/200th gp per US$. That means there is a <b>8,000-fold difference </b>in the conversion factor for these two items. Clearly any average value would be meaningless. If we used $100 per gp, based on the lower range from metal conversion value above, a spyglass should cost only 2.5 sp, clearly too cheap, while a saddle would cost 20 gp. </p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Estimating the price based on what it costs to manufacture</h3><p>Instead, if you want to estimate how expensive something would be, base it on <b>how much the raw materials would cost and how much the labor would cost</b>. So essentially you are looking what it costs to craft the item. You can apply any level of profit margin on top of that, if you like. </p><h3>Crafting rules</h3><h3><p style="font-size: medium; font-weight: 400;">If you look at the crafting rules, which presupose skilled labor (PHB p. 187), you can craft items at a rate of 5 gp per day, and a material cost of half the total value in materials. Under these rules, crafting a riding saddle would only take 2 days, and cost 5 gp for raw materials like leather.</p><p style="font-size: medium; font-weight: 400;">The labor cost in the crafting rules is 2.5 gp per day, not 2 gp, but the rules are directed at the PCs, who are supposed to be individuals out of the ordinary. Skilled PCs can craft a saddle faster than the average craftsman. To determine prices for goods crafted by ordinary folk, we instead should assume a crafting rate of 2 gp per day, the cost of paying for a day's labor. </p></h3><h3 style="text-align: left;">Labor costs</h3><p>Labor is fundamental for economic value, because if a laborer could not afford the necessities of life, you would not have a sustainable economy, and if they could amass riches and would not need to work any more, neither. The idea that all value can be derived from labor is essentially Adam Smith's <a href="https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/labor-theory-of-value.asp">Labor Theory of Money</a><span style="font-size: 13.3333px;"> (</span><i>This theory since has been supplanted by the subjective theory, that value is measured by how useful something is to someone; you may see that reflected in what characters are willing to spend on a magic weapon.)</i></p><p>In the game, the cost for an unskilled laborer is 2 sp per day (see Services, p. 159 PHB), but most manufactured items will requrie a skilled artisan. A <b>skilled laborer is paid 2 gp per day </b>in the game. </p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Material Costs </h3><p style="text-align: left;">In theory, material costs also come down to labor costs, and maybe rent extracted from access to limited resources like land (for pasture), mines (for ore or metal) and so on. But in practical terms, you can get the material prices for many raw materials from the <b>list of trade goods</b>. </p><p style="text-align: left;">For those that are not, you could estimate it from exisiting items based on the crafting rules in the PHB (p. 187) that state half of the cost is material. For example, leather is not on the list. Leather armor is made of leather, weighs 10 pounds and costs 10 gp, meaning a pound of leather could cost up to half a gp. This is not exact, but it can give you an idea.</p><p style="text-align: left;">If determined in this way, unless an item requires highly unusual components, the material costs will often be much smaller than the labor cost.</p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Market Price</h3><p style="text-align: left;">The crafting rules instead base the material cost on the cost of labor instead, doubling it, which leads to a higher price than adding raw trade good values to the labor cost. </p><p style="text-align: left;">If you want the market price of an item, the cost calucaltion based on labor and material does not factor in profit margin on top of the labor for the trader (for goods that are imported) and merchant, each of which likely would apply 30% onto the costs if not more. The economy in the game does not really work anyways, with all trade goods costing the same everywhere, so no profit can be made on them, and nobody would trade them. </p><p style="text-align: left;">So, instead of adding this explicitly, a simplification is to go with the crafting rule, just doubling the labor cost to arrive at the item market price, and add extra cost for <i>unsual or especially costly</i> components on top of that. That will be the final item price. </p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Some Examples</h3><p><b><i>Riding Saddle</i></b>. Manufacturing a riding saddle takes about <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/Leathercraft/comments/7r1amp/what_does_it_take_to_make_a_horse_saddle/">50 hours of work</a> by a skilled laborer, and that work has not changed much due to modern machinery or automation. At 8 hours and 2 gp per day, we would arrive at a price of 12.5 gp for the labor and 25 gp for the saddle. So this method would be off by nearly a factor of three, because it really takes three times longer to make a saddle then the game assumes. If it indeed would only 20 hours to make a saddle, it would end up at exactly the 10 gp from the PHB.</p><p><b><i> Spyglass</i></b>. In medieval times lenses were made from gemstones, typically beryllium, which might explain the high material cost. If we did not know the spyglass cost, and would estimate it would take about a month (30 days) to grind and polish the lenses and manufacture the precision housing, we would be at 60 gp labor, or 120 gp total cost. Chrysoberyl according to the DMG p. 134 cost 100 gp per gem. Because they are a special, costly material, we add them on top, which gives us a total of 320 gp. This still would be 3x lower than the PHB, but seems to be a more reasonable in-game price for a spyglass.</p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Conclusion</h3><p>There is no generic formula for converting modern day prices of goods into gp costed ones that makes sense for a medieval-magical world. And there is not a lot of support in the rules for it, for good reason. It is a complex subject. </p><p>If you are interested in what the price for an item could or should be, and enjoy research on historical prices, or medieval manufacturing methods, the best way is to do it item by item.</p><p>For practical purposes, you probably can spend your prepration time better than doing this, unless you enjoy reading up on how things were done. Either use a price from the internet where sombody <a href="https://www.dmsguild.com/product/272554/Comprehensive-Equipment-Manual">has already done the work</a>, or frome a similar game with more comprehensive price lists (Pathfinder comes to mind), or just ballpark the price based on other items on the equipment list.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-734505345386322022022-08-08T10:02:00.019-07:002022-08-27T14:23:01.214-07:00Average Number of Encounters Per Level in D&D 5e<div>Many class features have a limited number of uses per day, such as the barbarian's Rage, the cleric's Channel Divinity, or the paladin's spell slots for Divine Smite.</div><div><br />How much damage such a feature can be expected to contribute to combat depends heavily on how many encounters you'll have in a day, because once you run out of uses, it won't contribute any more damage. When planning your character and estimating average expected damage, you therefore often have to make an assumption about the number of encounters per day that will use up some of those limited resources. So, <b>what is a good estimate for the average number of encounters per day?</b> The short answer is, theoretically 5 per day<b>, in practical play 3 per day</b>. There are multiple was to derive this estimate for the number of encounters per day.</div><div><br /></div><div><h3 style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: #232629; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: 1.3; margin: 1.4667em 0px 0.74em; padding: 0px; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit; font-size: medium;">Calculated from the DMG: 5 per day</span></span></h3>The DMG says most parties can handle about six to eight medium or hard encounters per day (p. 84). </div><div>The DMG provides tables of expected experience per character and adventuring day on page 84, and of expected XP per Easy, Moderate, Hard or Deadly encounter on page 82. From this one can calculate the expected number of encounters of each type in a typical adventuring day, if one had only that difficulty of encounter. The numbers vary slightly from level to level, but on average over 20 levels of play they come to</div><div><br /><div class="s-table-container" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: #232629; font-size: 15px; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><table class="s-table" style="border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: var(--fs-body1); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 471.477px;"><thead style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><strong style="background-color: white; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Difficulty</span></strong></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Easy</span></span></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Moderate</span></span></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Hard</span></span></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Deadly</span></span></th></tr></thead><tbody style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><strong style="background-color: white; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Encounters</span></strong></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">13</span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">7</span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">4</span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">3</span></span></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><br /></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">If all encounter difficulties were equally likely, that would mean on average 7 encounters per day, falling right onto the 6-8 per day of the text. .</p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The statement on page 84 DMG is "<i>Assuming typical adventuring conditions and average luck, most adventuring parties can handle about six to eight medium or hard encounters in a day</i>". This is slightly higher than these numbers, maybe because encounters are not supposed to go all the way to the point where the party cannot handle them any more.<br /><br />Easy encounters are described as follows:</p><blockquote style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--black-600); font-size: 15px; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0 1em var(--s-prose-spacing) 1em; padding: 0.8em 0.8em 0.8em 1em; position: relative; quotes: none; vertical-align: baseline;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><strong style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Easy</strong>. An easy encounter <em style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">doesn't tax the characters' resources</em> or put them in serious peril. They might lose a few hit points.</span></span></p></blockquote>So, for the purposes of consuming limited use of daily abilities, we can ignore Easy encounters, as they are supposed to <i>not tax the characters' resources</i>, other then losing a few hits. This also matches my experience: for example, characters rarely waste their limited features on fights they know they can handle with cantrips and routine attacks. We will just average Medium, Hard and Deadly ones, assuming all types of encounter are equally likely.</div><div><br />With this, the average, "theoretical" number of resource-consuming encounters per day based on DMG guidance is 4.6. Rounding it to a full number, it's <b>five encounters per day</b>.</div><div><br /></div><div>However, from my own experience, these numbers tend to not reflect the actual number of encounters in a normal day, unless you have a fight-heavy dungeon crawl with lots of minor encounters. <br /><h4 style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: #232629; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: 1.3; margin: 1.4667em 0px 0.74em; padding: 0px; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit; font-size: medium;">Calculated from <span style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Mines of Phandelver</span> and actual play: 3 per day</span></span></h4>Now, one counterpoint is that all encounter difficulties may<i> not</i> be equally likely in an actual game or campaign. And we cannot know how the distribution looks like for every game. However, we at least can know it for some of the published campaigns.</div><div><br /></div><div><div class="s-table-container" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Technoskald took the effort to <a href="https://technoskald.me/2014/09/27/encounter-difficulty-in-lost-mine-of-phandelver/">list every encounter in Mines of Phandelver</a> with its difficulty ranking based on the characters' level at the time of the encounter. Over the course of that adventure this is the distribution of encounters:<br /><br /><br /><table class="s-table" style="border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: #232629; font-size: 15px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 471.477px;"><thead style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><strong style="background-color: white; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Difficulty</span></strong></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Easy</span></span></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Moderate</span></span></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Hard</span></span></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Deadly</span></span></th></tr></thead><tbody style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><strong style="background-color: white; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Encounters</span></strong></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">8</span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">9</span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">8</span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">16</span></span></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><br />That is 41 encounters total, and 33 of Moderate to Deadly difficulty.<br /><br />Ignoring the Easy encounters again, due to the higher share of deadly encounters in the mix, the average from this published sample is slightly lower, and if you round it comes to<b> four encounters per adventuring day.</b><br /><br />However, this assumes that each day is fully filled with encounters, until the characters have exhausted all their resources. In my experience, in the absence of clear time pressure, players often opt to rest and recover before all of their resources are used up. You never know what's coming for you in the night. So, as long as the players have some ability to influence the number of encounters, you can expect it to be lower in the wild than what the XP guidance suggests.<br /><br />This is borne out by practical experiment. We played <i>LMoP</i>, and even though our DM egged us on through NPCs to press forward whenever he could, we took in total 32 days of in-game time to get through it. There are many days of traveling around the countryside. At 33 resource-taxing encounters, that would just be <i>one such encounter per day</i>. However I think a better way to look at this is by looking at the days were we actually did have encounters.</p>If we remove all the "empty" days without combat encounters were we were just traveling or shopping or doing research, we had 11 days with encounters, or <b>three encounters per day</b>. Some of these were a single encounter when being ambushed traveling at night, others were dense with high numbers when fighting through one of the major adventure sites.<h3 style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: #232629; font-size: var(--fs-subheading); font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: 1.3; margin: 1.4667em 0px 0.74em; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Player Surveys: 3 per day</span></span></h3>ENWorld <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-many-encounters-per-day-is-your-average.682785/">ran a survey</a> asking players of 5e, "On average, how many combat encounters do you experience per day in a 5e game?". There were 82 answers:</div><div><br /><div class="s-table-container" style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; color: #232629; font-size: 15px; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-x: auto; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><table class="s-table" style="border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px; border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: var(--fs-body1); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; max-width: 100%; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: 471.477px;"><thead style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Number</span></span></th><th style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-dark); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: var(--lh-sm); margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"> Votes</span></span></th></tr></thead><tbody style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">Less than 1 </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">9</span></span></td></tr><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">1 </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">9</span></span></td></tr><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">2 </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">18</span></span></td></tr><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">3 </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">20</span></span></td></tr><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">4 </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">7</span></span></td></tr><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">5 </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">10</span></span></td></tr><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">6 </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 0px; border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">6</span></span></td></tr><tr style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">7 or more </span></span></td><td style="border-bottom: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-image: initial; border-left: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-right: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); border-top: 1px solid var(--bc-medium); box-sizing: inherit; color: var(--fc-medium); font-stretch: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: var(--su8); text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">3</span></span></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><br /></div>From this it is clear that nobody seems to be experiencing days with 13 Easy encounters, and two or three encounters per day are the most common. If we count "less than 1" as 1 and "7 or more" as 7, the average here is <b>3 encounters per day.</b></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span><span><br /><span style="font-family: inherit;">This matches our own game experience of three encounters per day. In my experience, in campaigns with no urgent clock, the players often end up fighting fewer fights per day, and the DM responds with making them harder, so the real number might be even lower. Explanations for the difference to the theoretical four or five are therefore:</span></span></span></div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>very Easy encounters do not register as a challenge and cost no resources</li><li>DMs try to present exciting and dangerous fights, which means Deadly encounters that you can only do three or so of per day</li><li>unless pressed for time, players will try to rest before being pushed to the limit, further undercutting the theoretical encounter numbers</li></ul><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: inherit;">Summary</span></h3><b>For building a character for a real campaign, three resource consuming encounters per day seems to be the most useful assumption. </b></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-80208732014541591012022-06-26T03:53:00.004-07:002022-08-08T10:04:08.603-07:00Resolving 5e Rules Questions<p> I have been answering a lot of questions on 5th Edition rules over at <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/">RPG Stack Exchange</a>. The technical rules questions nearly all can be answered using just a handful of principles. So teaching a man to fish instead of fishing, here is what I learned so far:</p><p>1. <b>Read the Rulebook</b>. A lot of questions can directly be answered just by reading the relevant sections, of the rules, most often the Combat/Action section, the class descriptions, and the Spellcasting section. Some sections were errataed, so it might be useful to read them at <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/">D&D Beyond</a>, where the most current text is hosted, so you do not need to check the <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/8760-official-wizards-of-the-coast-errata">errata files</a>. Searching there can also dig up additional books like Xanathar's Guide to Everything or Tasha's Cauldron of Everything that contains additional rules interpretation beyond the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual. </p><p>2. <b>Check the <a href="https://dnd.wizards.com/sage-advice-compendium">Sage Advice Compendium</a></b>. These are officially sanctioned rules interpretations and clarifications. Although the SAC says it contains rulings, not rules, it's commonly accepted to follow what is suggested there. </p><p> 3. <b>Understand what the words mean</b>: words that are not defined game terms are meant to be used in their <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/135039/what-is-the-source-for-defaulting-to-plain-english-readings-of-non-game-terms">common English meaning</a>, so you can look them up in a dictionary, and go from there. There are not that many defined game terms, and some words come up extremely often, so it is also very useful to have a clear idea what these mean under the rules:</p><p></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>What is an <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/95532/what-is-considered-an-object">object</a></li><li>What is a <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47254/what-is-the-definition-of-creature-and-is-it-used-consistently">creature</a></li><li>What is a <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/152115/what-counts-as-a-target-for-a-spell">target</a> for a spell</li><li>What is an <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/105781/what-does-upper-case-a-attack-action-vs-lower-case-a-attack-mean">Attack action vs an individual attack</a></li></ul><div>4. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196993/what-is-the-source-of-the-there-are-no-hidden-secret-rules-principle"><b>There are no hidden rules</b></a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1249154173356171264">Everyday things</a> are supposed to behave as we would expect them to. <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/107637/what-is-the-source-of-the-spells-do-only-what-they-say-they-do-rules-interpret">Spells only do what they say they do</a>, because they dabble in things beyond our normal experience, so inferring stuff is problematic. If the rules do not restrict something, or do not say you can do something, than that's how it is.</div><div><br /></div><div>5. <b>Conflicting rules</b>. Sometimes the rules contradict each other. In such cases, if there is one <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/135076/is-there-a-hierarchy-of-specificity">the more specific rule wins</a>. If two effects happen simultaneously, then either the DM decides the order of resolution, or (per an optional rule in Xanathar's), the player controlling the current turn. Multiple effects by default <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/198817/do-bonuses-to-ac-stack/198835#198835">stack, except if they have the same name</a>, then only the most potent effect prevails. </div><div><br /></div><div>6. <b><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/196846/is-there-a-citation-for-dd-is-not-a-physics-simulation">D&D is not a physics simulation</a></b>. Be careful of getting sucked into arguing from how real-world physics work in too much detail. The game rules aim to simplify flow of play and fast resolution, not simulating physics or chemistry accurately. </div><div><br /></div><div>7. <b><a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/195052/what-is-the-source-of-the-rulings-not-rules-statement">D&D is a game of rulings, not rules</a></b>. In many cases, after going through all these steps, there is not a clear, unequivocal answer to a question. The text of the rules is too vague, none of the conflict resolution rules works. And the game acknowledges that, on purpose: trying to cover all the corner cases and arcane interactions between an ever growing amount of published materials would lead to rules text that would be unusable, as it would be far too long. For this reason, in many cases the DM is called upon to adjudicate. Don't fall into the trap of stretching your rules inferences to ever more indirect and tenuous chains of proof: in such cases, nearly always, the answer is that it is the DM's call, by design.</div><div><br /></div><div>In additon, both Xanathar's and Tasha's have a page of rules clarifications and reminders for the most often confused rules. Here are the ones they cover:</div><div><ol style="text-align: left;"><li><b>The DM adjudicates the rules </b></li><li><b>Exceptions over general rules</b></li><li><b>Round Down</b></li><li><b>Advantage and Disadvantage</b> - no matter how many of each, cancel out</li><li><b>Combining different effects</b> - they stack unless they have the same name, then the most potent wins (Xanathar only)</li><li><b>Reaction timing</b> - happens after the trigger, unless the reaction source tells you otherwise</li><li><b>Resistance and Vunerability</b> - in order: immunity, damage mods, one resistance, one vulnerability (Xanathar only)</li><li><b>Proficiency Bonus</b> - can doubled or halved and then applied only once per roll</li><li><b>Bonus Action Spells</b> - cannot cast anything but 1-action cantrips in the same turn</li><li><b>Concentration</b> - ends instantly when you start casting another spell with it</li><li><b>Temporary hp</b> - don't add up, you decide which to keep if you get new ones</li><li> <b>Have fun</b> - no need to know or use all the rules, as long as you have fun (Tasha only) </li></ol></div><div><br /></div><p></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-51487792198617029392022-05-29T01:59:00.033-07:002022-08-27T14:04:13.055-07:00Calculating 5e character build combat power<p>Many character builds have abilities that they can only use a limited number of time per day or per short rest. For comparing builds and determining expected damage output, it's useful to know the number of fights in a day, and the number of rounds in a fight, so one can estimate how much these abilities can be expected to contribute. </p><p>For combat estimations, unless the question is specifically concerned with high level play, it is a good approximation to look at the play in tier one and tier two (levels 1 to 10), as <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/90-of-d-d-games-stop-by-level-10-wizards-more-popular-at-higher-levels.666097/">90% of all games</a> play in this level range.</p><p><b>Combat rounds per Encounter</b>: estimates <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2022/08/average-rounds-of-combat-in-5e.html">range from 3 to 5 rounds</a>. An average of <b>four rounds per combat</b> is a good compromise to use. </p><p><b>Combats per day</b>: An in depth exploration based on DMG math, published adventures, and survey staticstics points at a best estimate of <b><a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2022/08/average-number-of-encounters-per-level.html">three combat encounters per day</a></b>. (Some petty sticklers point out that there could be non-combat encounters, but that does not matter, as long as the encounter consumes the limited daily resources. In practice, nearly 100% of encounters that are rewarded with XP are combat anyways, so those guys are just splitting hairs for the purpse of creating arguments, not to any practical use.)</p><p><b>Short Rests Per Day</b>. The DMG talks about a typcial group taking about 2 short rests per day, but there is nothing that blocks you from taking more. For narrative sense, you probably need to have some strenuous activity between two short rests or they would bleed into one extended short rest. You also need 8 hours for a long rest, so that leaves 16 hours, or at most 15 short rests. If we assume only three combat encounters per day, then even at the suggested 2 short rests, you would go into every combat encounter rested, and able to access any ability that depends on having taken a short rest. That also matches my experience: players of character classes that refresh important features on short rests will push for taking such short rests after any noteworthy fight. It therefore is probably a fair default assumption that <b>abilities that reset on short rest will be available for every combat</b>.</p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Average Damage per Attack</h3><p>Average damage per attack strongly depends on the individual build, varying <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2022/08/combat-rounds-per-encounter-in-d-5e.html">easily by a factor of two</a> between different builds. So this should be calculated for each build and its special abilities, assuming the combatant is short-rested. Good assumptions are probably three encounters per day, each of four rounds of combat (as if there are fewer encounters, they tend to be more difficult and longer). </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-16257303680591150052022-02-14T00:55:00.025-08:002022-08-08T10:04:46.954-07:00Scary 5e Monsters<p>Compared to early editions of the game, 5e player characters have it easy. They heal all damage overnight. They have lots of spell slots. There are no more undead <i>draining experience levels forever. </i>No rust monsters <i>thrashing magical armor</i>. No Fireball <i>melting magical items</i>. No more <i>instant death </i>at 0 hp. The game provides rules for "balanced" winnable encounters, and monsters on higher CRs struggle to challenge the player characters. With death saves, <i>Healing Word</i>, and <i>Revivify</i>, death quickly becomes unlikely. </p><p>(If there is one risk here, total party kill: individual death after the first two or three levels is so unlikely that players can get careless and fail to avoid or flee an encounter that could wipe out the whole party. Because the assumption is won fights, the rules also make fleeing a deadly fight mechanically difficult, and this can prove fatal.)</p><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>How to scare players?</b></h3><p>With everything back to healthy and fresh the next morning, damage and even lowered statistics from undead are not scary. To create scary encounters, use monsters that have the potential to <i>permanently </i>mutilate or weaken the player characters. That is what gets the players squirming. </p><p>The variant rule for <i>Lingering Injuries</i> gives every monster the ability to cause quasi-permanent damage. Most permanent lingering injuries require level six or better magic (like <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/heal">Heal</a>) to fix. This makes play in general more high-stakes and scary, and the campaign tougher and grittier.</p><h3 style="text-align: left;">What is permanent? </h3><p>What is permanent depends very much on the restorative magic the characters have access to, which is limited by their level. </p><p>On <b>level one</b>, death is permanent. You do not have the funds or abilities to revive a dead comerade. Other than wounds, you can undo nothing. So everything is scary. Level one is closest to real live. </p><p>On <b>level three</b>, characters gain access to <b>Lesser Restoration</b>. Now they can heal diseases, neutralize poisons (and remove permanent magical blindness and deafness, although that rarely happens).</p><p>On <b>level five</b>, characters gain access to <b>Revivify </b>and<b> Remove Curse </b>and have more money to buy magical and divine aid, they are a lot more resourceful and resilient. They can cure lycantrophy infections, and undo recent death. They still need to get help from powerful NPC to fix things like petrification, permanent ability damage or raising the dead.</p><p>On <b>level nine </b>is a <i>big step up </i>with access to <b>Greater Restoration </b>and <b>Raise Dead</b>. Petrification, permanent <a href="https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/69984/is-greater-restoration-the-only-way-to-reverse-ability-score-damage">Ability score damage</a> and permanent maximum hit point damage can be undone. This is after a long period from level five, and around this level many campaigns start to wind down.</p><p>On <b>level thirteen </b>players get access to <b>Plane Shift</b>, <b>Astral Spell</b>, <b>Resurrection</b> and <b>Regenerate</b> so if a monster sends them to hell on a failed save, they are not gone forever from the campaign. And if they lose their limbs, brains or internal organs, they can get them back and live. </p><p>On <b>level seventeen, </b>players finally unlock the top end, with <b>Greater Ressurection </b>and <b>Wish</b><i>. </i>Nearly nothing is permanent now, you can undo the worst character-mangling mishaps (and that is also exclusively how wish was being used by Gygax and Co. in 1e). Scary here are only the things that even a wish cannot fix, like your soul being destroyed. </p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Monster List</h3><div>Here are monsters from the Monster Manual and MtoF (designated with a +) that have permanent effects in the sense you cannot undo them without the help of spells. Some of them can cause permanent death if the dead are not revived within a few days. The required spells are given in parentheses. LV = Level required to cast curative magic, CR = Monster Challenge Rating</div><div><br /></div><div>LV CR</div><div><span>3 <span> </span></span>1/2 <b>Gas Spore</b> - Spores (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/lesser-restoration">Lesser Restoration</a>)</div><div>5<span> 1</span>/2 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/shadow">Shadow</a> - Strength reduction to 0 spawns shadow after 1d4h (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/revivify">Revivify</a> corpse)</div><div>17 <span> </span>1/2 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/gray-ooze">Gray Ooze</a> - permanently corrodes nonmagical weapons and armor</div><div>17 <span> </span>1/2 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/rust-monster">Rust Monster </a>- permanently corrodes non-magical metal weapons and armor</div><div>9<span> <span> </span></span>2 <b>Intellect Devourer </b>- Int damage (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>), remove brain (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>)</div><div>17<span> <span> </span></span>2 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/gibbering-mouther">Gibbering Mouther</a> - absorbed into mouther when killed by it (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>?)</div><div>5<span> <span> </span></span>2 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/wererat">Wererat</a> - Lycanthropy (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>)</div><div>5<span> <span> </span></span>2 <b>Myconoid Sovereign</b> - Animating Spores (kill and <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/revivify">Revivify</a>? will still be fungus)</div><div>3/17 2 <b>Rutterkin+ </b>poison (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/lesser-restoration">Lesser Restoration</a>), transformation to abyssal wretch (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div>5<span> <span> </span></span>3 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/werewolf">Werewolf</a> - Lycanthropy (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>)</div><div>9<span> <span> </span></span>3 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/basilisk">Basilik</a> - Petrification (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>)</div><div>5<span> <span> </span></span>3 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/mummy">Mummy</a> - Mummy Rot (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>)</div><div>5/9<span> 3 Bulezau+ Poison </span>(<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/lesser-restoration">Lesser Restoration</a>), max hp reduction (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>)</div><div>5/13<span> </span>3 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/wight">Wight </a>- hp max reduction, (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/revivify">Revivify</a>), raise as zombie after 24 h (kill & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>)</div><div>5/13<span> </span>3 Deathlock Wight - hp max reduction, (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/revivify">Revivify</a>), raise as zombie after 24 h (kill & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>)</div><div>9 <span> </span>4 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/ghost">Ghost </a>- Possession, (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/dispel-evil-and-good">Dispel Evil</a>) or hitting down to 0</div><div><span> </span><span> </span> 4 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/lamia">Lamia</a> - not permanent but on lower levels <i>Geas </i>can be an issue</div><div>5<span> </span>4 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/wereboar">Wereboar</a> - Lycanthropy (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>)</div><div>5<span> </span>4 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/weretiger">Weretiger</a> - Lycanthropy (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>)</div><div>17 <span> </span>4 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/black-pudding">Black Pudding</a> - permanently corrodes nonmagical weapons, armor</div><div>9<span> 4 Dybyuk - hp max reduction </span>(<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>), Posession?</div><div>9<span> </span>5 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/gorgon">Gorgon </a>- Petrification (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>)</div><div>5<span> </span>5 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/werebear">Werebear</a> - Lycanthropy (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>)</div><div>3/5<span> </span>5 <b>Red Slaad</b> - chaos phage (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/lesser-restoration">Lesser Restoration</a>, after gestation <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/revivify">Revivify</a>)</div><div>17<span> </span>5 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/wraith">Wraith</a> - Create Specter from freshly fallen foe (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)?</div><div>3<span> </span>5 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/otyugh">Otyugh</a> - disesase (save every 24 h cures or <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/lesser-restoration">Lesser Restoration</a>)</div><div>9<span> </span>5 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/night-hag">Night Hag</a> - reduce hp max (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>), on death soul is trapped (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)?</div><div>9<span> </span>6 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/medusa">Medusa </a>- Petrification (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>)</div><div>13<span> </span>6 <b>Githzerai Zerth </b>- Plane Shift (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift">Plane Shift</a>)</div><div>13<span> </span>7 <b>Mind Flayer</b> - Extract Brain (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>)</div><div>2/17 7 <b>Blue Slaad </b>- chaos phage (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/lesser-restoration">Lesser Restoration</a>, or after transformation <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div>13/17<span> 8 Corpse Flower+ - Cropses </span>zombifies (kill & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>), digest (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/true-resurrection">True Ressurection</a>)</div><div>13<span> </span>8 <b>Githyanki Knight </b>- permanently removes with Plane Shift (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift">Plane Shift</a>)</div><div><span>9<span> </span>9 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/clay-golem">Clay Golem</a> - hp maximum Reduction (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>)</span></div><div><span> </span>10 <a href="https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Aboleth#content">Aboleth </a>- permanently dominates (taking damage gives resaves)</div><div>13<span> </span>10 <b>Death Slaad</b> - Plane Shift (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift">Plane Shift</a>)</div><div>13<span> </span>11 <b>Djinni/Dao/Marid/Efreeti</b> - permanently removes with Plane Shift (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift">Plane Shift</a>)</div><div>13<span> </span>12 <b>Arcanaloth </b>- Finger of Death zombifies (kill & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>)</div><div>9/17 13 <b>Beholder </b>- Petrification (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>) and Disintegrate (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/true-resurrection">True Ressurection </a>or <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div>5/13<span> </span>13 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/rakshasa">Rakshasa</a> - Dream Curse (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>), Plane Shift (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift">Plane Shift</a>)</div><div>9<span> </span>13 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/vampire">Vampire</a> - Bite & bury to raise as Vampire Spawn (kill and <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/raise-dead">Raise Dead</a>? or <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div>5<span> </span>13 <b>Shadow Dragon </b>- Shadow Breath creates shadow on kill (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/revivify">Revivify</a> on corpse)</div><div> 13 <b>Narzugon+ </b>Hellfire Lance lemurizes in 1d4h, then (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>, or kill lemure & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/true-resurrection">True Ressurection </a>on original body)</div><div>5<span> </span>15 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/mummy-lord">Mummy Lord</a> - Mummy Rot (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/remove-curse">Remove Curse</a>)</div><div>9/13/17 15 <b>Nabassu+</b> Soul-stealing gaze hp reduction (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>), ghoulify (kill & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>), Devour Soul (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div> 18 <b>Sibriex+ </b>Warp Creature Exhaustion poison (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/lesser-restoration">Lesser Restoration</a>, or after transformation <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>), Feeblemind (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>, Heal, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div> 18 <b>Amnizu+ </b>Feeblemind (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>, Heal, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div>9/?<span> </span>21 <b>Demilich </b>- Energy Drain permanent Ability Damage, Trap Soul 24 h (no solution)</div><div>13/17 21 <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/lich">Lich</a> - Finger of Death zombifies (kill & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>), Plane Shift (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift">Plane Shift</a>), Disintegrate (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/true-resurrection">True Ressurection </a>or <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>)</div><div>21 Astral Dreadnought+ Demiplanar Donjon (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift">Plane Shift</a>)</div><div>21 Molydeus+ - Imprisonment (?),</div><div>23 Juiblex+ Acid Lash (<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/true-resurrection">True Ressurection</a>), Eject Slime reduces/destroys armor</div><div>23 Zuggtmoy disease Spore Servant (?)</div><div>9 26 Demogorgon+ Feeblemind (<a href="https://www.5esrd.com/database/creature/intellect-devourer/">Greater Restoration</a>, Heal, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/wish">Wish</a>), Tentacle hp max red</div><div>26 Orcus Lair raise dead as Skeleton, Zombie, Ghoul, Animate Dead/Create Undead (kill & <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resurrection">Resurrection</a>)</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>Not on the list:</div><div>Various hp maximum reducing undead, as it heals upon a long rest (e.g. Specter)</div><div>Cockatrice - Petrification ends after 24 hours</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-33221232369901162902022-02-04T11:59:00.083-08:002022-02-08T06:55:09.661-08:00Dungeon Economy<p>How much does it cost to build a dungeon or wizard tower? For those featured in adventures, this is simple: who cares? The writer does whatever he damn well pleases, and ignores the rules that apply to players. It's magic. It does not have to make sense from an economic perspective. <b>This is a game of high adventure, not accounting</b>. Just take a look at <b><i><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahasia">Rahasia</a></i></b>, choc full of teleporters, golems and magical statues, and the most powerful magic user in the place is level 4 (level 1, as long as the witches are not forming a coven).</p><p>That said, nobody in their right mind would spend more to protect his property than what it is worth. Therefore, the costs for guards and traps need to be adequate for the value of the treasures and building. It would be absurd to protect a treasure worth a few hundred gp with a vault that costs thousands. </p><p>So what is a way to equip and secure a place that makes economic sense? To answer this, we must know what spells, labor and mundane items cost and what they do, which differs by game system. I would like to have this for D&D 5e, and 5e is not well suited for this, because it does not provide power-calibrated prices for magic items, nor <i>any</i> prices for many of these other items. </p><h3 style="text-align: left;">Inofficial dugeon building costs for 5e </h3><p>I am using my own and <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XAiXpOfz9cMWt1RTBicmpmUDg/view?resourcekey=0-ceHUken0_UhQ3Apa6g4SJA">Sane Magic Item Prices</a> for magic items, with crafting costs of <i>half those</i>. OD&D / 1e, brilliant as ever, has prices for much of what one could wish for in mundane costs, from dungeon doors to pits and all the way to whole towers. From a <a href="https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/prices-from-1e-2e-3e-to-5e.838580/">comparison of prices</a> for all armor, weapons and mundane items in 1e and 5e, the value of a gp in 1e is about 1.25 times that of 5e. That is close enough for me to just use the price list from 1e. Spellcasting services cost spell level squared times 10 gp (plus material cost - DMG uses double material cost). Mundane items listed in the 5e PHB, such as a simple lock, cost as listed in the PHB. </p><p></p><p></p><div>You can get deep inspiration from OD&D on <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/early-d-dungeon-stocking-guidelines.html">tricks and trap</a><a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/early-d-dungeon-stocking-guidelines.html">s</a> you could use.</div><div><br /></div><div>Installing most items assumes skilled craftsmen, at a cost 2 gp/day, an unskilled laborer costs 2 sp/day, and is included in the item cost for simplicity. Hiring skilled NPCs like guards scales the cost linearly, starting at 2 gp/day for CR 1/8, to 16 gp/day for CR 1 and 24 gp/day for CR 3.</div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Difficulty Classes and Masterwork items</h3><div><br /></div><div>Some effects, like locks or traps have a DC, and the default is 15. As a general rule, to increase the DC by 1 point will cost 80% of the base price, up to DC 20. To increase it above DC 20, double the price for each step. This assumes it is very difficult and costly, to create such masterwork versions. The DC cannot be increased over 25 without magical support or a legendary craftsman. </div><div><br /></div><div>For example, a simple DC15 lock costs 10 gp. A DC 20 lock would cost 50 gp. A DC 25 lock would cost 1,600 gp.</div><div><br /></div><div>(Alternatively, you could add a flat fee of 100 gp to any base price item as a simpler rule, but that would fail to reflect the underlying base costs).</div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Permanent Magical Effects</h3><div><br /></div><div>There is no <i>Permanency</i> spell in 5e. Some spells have built in ways to make them permanent, but this leaves holes for many of the effects you are looking for. My solution to permanency for outfitting a building is:</div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Permanent magical effects are <b>crafted like magic items</b>, based on their cost. During the crafting time, the spell needs to be cast every day, including any material costs. A single caster can craft 25 gp worth per day, each assistant may accelerate this by also crafting 25 gp worth, without need for an additional casting or material components. </li><li>Like with <i>Glyph of Warding</i>, permanent spells <b>cannot be moved</b> from their place of creation. They end if moved more than 100' away. This keeps them local to the dugeon, tower or room.</li><li>The caster must at be of the level to craft the level of spell, as for spell scrolls (DMG p. 200).</li><li>Crafting cost is <b>10 times</b> the price of a scroll (i.e. 20 times the cost to craft a scroll).</li><li>Permanent spells are magic items, and as such cannot be simply dispelled with <i>Dispel Magic</i>. You may deduct 10% from the base cost if it can be surpressed this way for 10 minutes.</li><li>Instantaneous effect spells cannot be made permanent, but a <i>Glyph of Warding</i> triggering them can, e.g. for a recharging <i>Fireball</i> trap. Recharge is after 24 hours. Faster recharge is more expensive: double each step per hour, minute, round, anytime the trigger is fullfilled. </li></ul><div>The price table I use for spell scrolls (and thus, spell permancency) is </div><div>Level<span> Cost</span></div><div>Cantrip <span> </span>25 gp </div><div>1st <span> </span><span> </span>50 gp</div><div>2nd <span> <span> </span></span>150 gp </div><div>3rd <span> <span> </span></span>300 gp </div><div>4th <span> <span> </span></span>600 gp </div><div>5th <span> <span> </span></span>1,500 gp </div><div>6th <span> </span>3,000 gp </div><div>7th <span> </span>6,000 gp </div><div>8th 12,000 gp </div><div>9th 24,000 gp</div><div><br /></div><div><b><i>Teleport</i> effects:</b> these have a built-in condition like <i>Glyph of Warding</i>. They do not require the caster, have no mishap chance, cannot teleport into solids or lava, and by default have a Charisma saving throw. They trigger for base cost anytime the condition is fullfilled, and get more costly with each slower recharge step. Without saving throw, costs are doubled. Teleport within 90 feet counts as a level three spell, within 500 feet as a level four spell, within the same plane as a level five spell, and to other planes as a level seven spell. (These are relatively cheap to reflect how commonly they are seen in adventures, if abusable, could add a cost multiplier).</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Walls</b>: if you have a wall such as <i>Wall of Force</i> or a <i>Wall of Fire</i> to block access to somewhere, you likely want to be able to supress it so you can pass. As a wizard, you might just <i>Dimension Door</i> past, but a more convenient way would be to have some trigger that supresses the effect for a short time. Adding such a trigger adds 20% to the cost. </div><div><br /></div><div><b>Examples</b>: a permanent <i>Unseen Servant</i> would cost 500 gp (compare to the salary of about 73 gp per year for an unskilled laborer). A short range <i>teleport</i> that triggers anytime someone enters the room without save would cost 6,000 gp, one sending them to another plan without save 120,000 gp. A <i>Wall of Force</i> sealing a treasure chamber that you can inactivate would cost 18,000 gp. A <i>Gate</i> to hell would cost 240,000 gp - maybe a little too cheap, that's less than half of what a mundane castle costs.</div></div><div><br /></div><div>Spells that are typcially useful to make permanent are</div><div><br /></div><div>Cantrips: Light, Dancing Lights, (Continual Flame ist cheaper for light), Minor Illusion </div><div>Spell Level 1: Alarm, Fog Cloud, Grease, Unseen Servant, Silent Image (upcast Major Image is cheaper)</div><div>Spell Level 2: Darkness, Gust of Wind, Levitate, (Silence)</div><div>Spell Level 3: Animate Dead, Tiny Servant, Magic Circle, Glyph of Warding</div><div>Spell Level 4: Conjure Minor Elementals, Mordenkainen’s Faithful Hound, Wall of Fire</div><div>Spell Level 5: Animate Objects, Conjure Elemental, Summon Greater Demon, Passwall, Wall of Force</div><div>Spell Level 6: Arcane Gate, Create Undead, Globe of Invulnerability, Wall of Ice</div><div>Spell Level 7: Mordenkainen’s Magnificient Mansion, Plane Shift, Reverse Gravity, Teleport</div><div>Spell Level 8: Antimagic Field, Antipathy/Sympathy, Demiplane</div><div>Spell Level 9: Gate, Prismatic Wall</div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Alarms</h3><div><br /></div><div>This includes everything that alerts the owner, his allies or his guardians if there are unwanted intruders. Alarms can be built as mechanical traps in the form of trip wires, bucktes full of bells over doors and such. </div><div><br /></div><div>The classic option is the <i>Alarm </i>spell, that even a low-level mage can maintain if they are refreshing it. <i>Magic Mouth </i>is the best option for a permanent alarm, or you could craft <i>Alarm </i>permanently, if you want it to be silent. </div><div><br /></div><div>Higher level alternatives include a <i>Contingency</i> to trigger a <i>Message </i>or <i>Sending </i>to himself, if the GM allows for it, or a servant triggering a <i>Glyph of Warding </i>that contains <i>Sending</i>, and responding with whatever message he wants to send to you.</div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Blocks</h3><div><br /></div><div>This includes everything that restricts access, from a simple, locked dungeon doors, portcullis or barred windows, to a massive vault doors and permanent walls of force. Prices from the 1e DMG:</div><div><br /></div><div>Wooden Door<span> (4'w, 7'h)<span> <span> </span>10 gp <span> </span>3" thick</span></span></div><div><span><span>Wooden Door, reinforced<span> <span> </span>25 gp <span> </span>4" thick with iron bands</span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span>Iron Door<span> (4'w, 7'h)<span> </span><span> </span><span> 100 gp<span> </span>1" thick</span></span></span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span><span><span>Portcullis (10'w, 15'h)<span> </span><span> 500 gp<span> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span><span><span><span><span>Lock, simple<span> </span><span> </span><span> <span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> 10 gp<span> DC15, add to cost of door</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div><br /></div><div>Extra cost calculation for thicker iron vault doors scales with thickness: if it is twice as thick, it will cost double.</div><div><br /></div><div>The default spell for magical enhancement here is <i>Arcane Lock</i>, cheap at 50 gp and permanent, at higher levels there is <i>Antipathy.</i> Or permanent magical walls, especially <i>Wall of Force</i>.</div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Traps</h3><div><br /></div><div>This includes everything to stop, scare, harm, weaken or kill intruders, in case your access controls are not effective. There are no prices for traps (other than a hunting trap for d4 damage and 25 gp) in the rules. Default DC to detect and disarm is 15.</div><div><br /></div><div>Poison Needle <span> poison<span> 25 gp non resetting (small in locks of chests etc)</span></span></div><div>Dart trap<span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> 1d4<span> 40 gp non resetting (often poisoned)</span></span></div><div>Arrow<span> </span>trap<span> <span> </span><span> </span>1d10<span> 75 gp non resetting</span></span></div><div><span><span>Spear trap<span> </span><span> </span><span> 3d10<span> 250 gp non resetting</span></span></span></span></div><div>Pit, 5' cube<span> <span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span>4 gp walled and floored with finished stone </span></div><div>Trapdoor 2,5'w x 2,5'<span> 2 gp, double if secret, add 1 gp if spring-closing; add lock if locking</span></div><div><br /></div><div>Triggered traps can be reset by a skilled worker with 10 minutes of effort. Self reloading versions fire once per round, cost thrice the price, and need to be restocked when the magazine of 20 projetiles is empty.</div><div><br /></div><div>Instead of going over all the individual traps (scythe, boulder, acid, etc.) individually, price them by damage, with an increment of 100 gp for each d10. This gives a discount to the common pit, bolt and spear traps, and explains why they are so common. Poisons Gas fills a 10 foot cube for the price under Poisons. Sleep gas with Drow Poison stats is available.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Poison prices</b>. I lowered the price of basic poison to 25 gp, as it deals so little expected damage, even at that price, it is not a great buy. Poison of common poison creatures (normal Spider, Snake, or Scorpion) is common, that of giant variants or humanoids under 500 gp is uncommon, above 500 gp it is rare. Poison of devils, demons, or above 1,200 gp is Very Rare, and above DC20 it is legendary.</div><div><br /></div><div>For magical traps, <i>Glyph of Warding</i> sets the standard, at a base cost of 200 gp for self installed spells. See above about permancy to make it reusable. Other common traps include permanent teleporters. </div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Misdirection</h3><div><br /></div><div>This includes illusions, secret and hidden doors and hidden compartments. </div><div><br /></div><div>Hidden Door <span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> free*</span></div><div>Secret Door (2'w, 4'h)<span> <span> </span>50 gp<span> </span><span>DC 15</span></span></div><div>Illusory Wall (5'w, 5'h) <span> </span>250 gp (permanent <i>Minor Illusion</i>)</div><div>Illusory Wall (20'w, 20'h) 360 gp (permanent <i>Major Image</i>)</div><div><br /></div><div>* Hidden doors do not cost much extra and are a great low-cost option. If you have curtains or gobelins hiding the door, or put your cupboard in front of it, to only cost would be that of the furniture.</div><div><br /></div><div>Illusions may also be of monsters to fake-out danger and scare off intruders. They are best combined with real effects for enhanced believability.</div><div><br /></div><div>Commonly spells are permanent <i>Minor Illusion</i>, as well as <i>Major Image</i> and <i>Programmed Illusion</i>. <i>Illusory Script</i> and <i>Nystul's Magic Aura</i> can be used to disguise magical writing and items. <i>Guards and Wards</i> is a multi-purpose protection spell and can be made permanent by recasting it for a year and 3,650 gp. </div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Abjuration</h3><div><br /></div><div>Protection against magical intrusion. Coating some rooms or chests in lead may defend their contents from magical detection. A one-pound lead ingot is about 2 cubic inches, cost 1sp. Three can cover a square foot with a thin sheet. </div><div><br /></div><div>Lead Sheeting (5'x5')<span> </span><span> 7.5 gp</span></div><div><br /></div><div>Common spells are <i>Mordenkainens Private Sanctum </i>and <i>Hallow. </i><i>Mordenkainens Magnificent Mansion </i>and <i>Demiplane</i> create spaces that are inaccessible. </div><div><br /></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Guards</h3><div><br /></div><div>This is the most flexible and complex option. It includes hired guards, trained or charmed animals and monsters, retainers and allies. Magical companions work too. Undead, summoned monsters, magical constructs, and creatures put in stasis are good if you do not want to have long term maintenance costs or have no way to supply your guards. </div><div><br /></div><div>The game limits the ability to create such long-term allies, because if you could do so, and take them on adventures with you, this would be unbalancing. So there are only few, and often costly ways to do so.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Living guards</b></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Allies and friends</b> may be the best and cheapest way: if you have retired adventuring companions you have someone you know you can trust. By providing them with free lodging, you gain a powerful defender in case of an attack. Occasional presents from your adventures will be appreciated. In our case, we have a goblin ranger henchman, a mid-level cleric, and an adult gold dragon living with us. We gift them with treasure, gems and minor magic items when we stop by, to keep them happy. </div><div><br /></div><div>If you have an <i>Homunculus</i> or a <i>familiar</i> with a long range connection to you, these can work very well by secretly hanging around, observing what is going on, and warning you. </div><div><br /></div><div>The simplest option is to hire normal NPC <b>guards</b>. As skilled hirelings they cost 2 gp/day, or 730 gp/year for challeng rating 1/8. I'll reduce this with the rationale that long term secure emplyoment requires a lower rate than uncertain day wages. Untrained <b>commoners</b> have no combat training and will flee from any danger, but can act to stable-boys, servants, etc. NPCs are smart, which is worth somehing, as many magical servants are not.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>CR</b><span><b> Hireling<span> Cost/year</span></b></span></div><div>0 <b>commoner </b>50 gp</div><div>1/8 <b>guard<span> </span></b><b> </b>500 gp</div><div>1/4 <span> </span><b>acolyte</b> <span> </span>1,000 gp </div><div>1/2 <span> </span><b>thug<span> </span><span> <span> </span></span></b>2,000 gp (reskin as guard sergeant)</div><div>1 <span> </span><b>spy</b> <span> </span><span> </span>4,000 gp<br />2 <span> </span><span> </span><b>captain <span> </span></b>8,000 gp (<b>bandit captain</b>, reskin as guard officer)<br />3 <span> </span><b>veteran</b> 12,000 gp</div><div><br /></div><div>These values provide a benchmark for magical creations: more expensive in absolute, cheaper over time. </div><div><br /></div><div>Trained monsters, such as guard dog <b>mastiffs</b>, or <b>wolves</b> or <b>lions</b>, are also great. They have keen senses, and only cost their food as maintenance, but eat expensive meat. Snakes both giant and poisonous, sharks etc are all possibilities, but are to stupid to train and hence not listed. More exotic monsters such as <b>mimics, </b>or<b> chimeras</b> may be found on adventures and charmed or kept at peace by feeding (GM adjucates the cost). As they lack higer intelligence, you need to combine them with a skilled keepers that can tend to them, if you cannot do so yourself. If you can charm them and transport them, this still is very cheap for a lot of dangerous creature.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>CR</b><span><b> Beast<span> Cost/year</span></b></span></div><div><span><span>1/8 <b>mastiff</b><span> 100 gp</span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span>1/4 <b>wolf</b><span> </span><span> 150 gp (also: panther, leopard)</span></span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span><span><span>1 <b>lion</b><span> <span> 600 gp </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div><br /></div><div>Spells like <i>Speak with Animals</i> and <i>Animal Friendship</i> for druids can help to enlist many small, innocous spies and informants that make it difficult to enter unobserved. </div><div><br /></div><div><b>Undead</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Animate Dead</i> and <i>Create Undead </i>are your bread and butter spells here. Zombies make guardians, but are too dumb for much else. Skeletons on the other hand are surprisingly intelligent, and could act as simple cooks, manservants and so on, as could the unsavoury ghouls. Ghasts and Wights are as intelligent as humans, and can manage your affairs. The halfwit mummies are not worth it. </div><div><br /></div><div>The main downside is that you have to be present to recast the spell every day, or these creatures will become unbound and do how they please. Of course, Necromancy is despicable, and you will get distrustful looks if you practice it openly. </div><div><br /></div><div>Binding them permenently mean crafting. The cost for a skeleton is about two years' of wages for a guard, so worth it if you have a long term perspective. For the high end undead, wights are the best, they are as smart as humans and as tought as mummies at half the cost.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>CR<span> Monster<span> One-time cost</span></span></b></div><div>1/4 <b>s</b><b>keleton</b><b> </b>1,500 gp</div><div><span>1/4 <b>z</b><b>ombie <span> </span></b><b> </b>1,500 gp</span></div><div><span>1 <b>g</b><b>houl<span> </span></b><b> </b>10,000 gp</span></div><div><span>2 <b>ghast</b><span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span><b> </b>60,000 gp<br /></span></div><div><span><span>3 <b>wight<span> </span></b><span><b> </b>60,000 gp</span><br /></span></span></div><div><span><span><span>3 <b>mummy </b>120,000 gp</span></span></span></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Summoned Creatures</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Conjuration spells for devils, demons or elementals (including mephits, xorn, invisible stalkers; djinni and efreeti are of too high a CR to be summoned) are high level spells starting only with spell level four and hence are the domain of powerful wizards, or of wealthy patrons who can afford their services. </div><div><br /></div><div>Summoning alone is insufficient for long term service. One either has to strike a bargain or pact with the summoned entity, or one needs <i>Magic Circle </i>and <i>Planar Binding</i>, upcast for a longer term duration, the maximum being a day and a year at level nine, which requires the services of an <b>archmage</b>. These things can go wrong, many a wizard has been killed this way. Any pact should be at least twice as costly then the corresponding coerced option.</div><div><br /></div><div>If the owner can do all the spellcasting himself, the cost is 1100 gp. If you can do 7th level Bindings, the annual cost will be 13,200 gp a year. That is still <i>very</i> cheap for a CR 6 guardian. (For creatures with Dispel Magic or teleportation to get around the circle, there are extra costs). Summoning Demons, put them </div><div><br /></div><div>If you have the services of an <b>archmage</b> there are additional costs of 900 gp for binding in a circle, and the conjuration itself, for example for an invisible stalker 360 gp, total cost 2,360 gp/year. </div><div><br /></div><div>CR<span> Monster<span> <span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> </span><span> <span> </span><span> </span><span> </span></span></span></span></div><div>5 <b>air/water/fire/earth elemental </b></div><div>5 <b>salamander</b></div><div>5 <b>xorn</b></div><div>6 <b>galeb dur</b></div><div><span>6 <b>invisible stalker</b></span></div><div><br /></div><div>Unless you want the creature as your majordomo or are naturally friends with such a creature (see above), a better alternative for summond creatures may be to put them into a <i>Sequester</i> or summon them with <i>Glyph of Warding</i>. </div><div><br /></div><div><b>Constructs</b></div><div><br /></div><div>The least morally questionable solution for long-term servant. You can find examples in the Monster Manual: <b>Animated Object</b> (Sword, Armor, Rug), <b>Helmed Horror</b><i>, </i>and for high challenge ratings the <b>Golems</b> (Flesh, Clay, Stone, Iron). <b>Scarecrow</b> feel too much like a horror flick, maybe if you are evil. Unfortunately through all the editions, there is no simple animated statue for lower challenge rating of tier one play. <i>Dungeon of the Mad Mage</i> has a <b>Living Statue</b>), <i>Icewind Dale</i> a <b>Snow Golem,</b> <i>Ghosts of Saltmarsh</i> a <b>Living Iron Statue,</b> <i>Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes</i> clockwork creatures, <b>Bronze Scout, Iron Cobra, Stone Defender, Oaken Bolter, </b>and <b>Sacred Statue</b>. There are no rules on how much it costs to create any of them. </div><div><br /></div><div>To limit abuse they are bound to only function inside and near the building. If you want them unbound, double the cost. If you buy them ready made, double the cost again. If you allow a Dispel Magic to entirely undo them, not just suppress their animation for 10 minutes, reduce the cost by 25%.</div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>CR<span> <span> </span>Cost</span></b></div><div>¼ <span> <span> 2,000</span></span> gp <br />½ <span> <span> 4,0</span></span>00 gp </div><div>1 <span> <span> 8</span></span>,000 gp <br />2 <span> <span> 16</span></span>,000 gp <br />3 <span> <span> 24</span></span>,000 gp</div><div><br /></div><div>Crafting based on permanent <i>Animate Objects </i>would be a lot cheaper, so that spell is excluded from being made permanent. Crafting Golems requires a very rare <i>Manual of Golems </i>that is consumed, see there for their costs (a cheap 65,000 gp to 100,000 gp). </div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Sequester</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Sequester will cost you 5,000 gp, and allow you to stash away any creature for one-time release. As such, it is well suited to release a powerful guardian, say, a dragon, and that at a price that can be way lower than the CR that can be achieved for ongoing guardians. However, it is not useful for ongoing stewartship or patrolling of your premises.</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Price List Dungeon Trappings</b></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgisUC0XYM7unMYCSFDm_dEKCnD_NXn765Jl7hqvCfccga0Q9MB9tyfbj1FRLCUlm6WsFjpxI-9ynH-kIANYCM2pHAwZ_VTmb9uEQUTkO-0qacFnVeh0SAPn-bCQRSkH6yhigSeFPScyyRxNJab0NDBq1YigTPCvD0fWs5QZA85RR7nKBkeJKCjFB4=s732" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="732" data-original-width="458" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgisUC0XYM7unMYCSFDm_dEKCnD_NXn765Jl7hqvCfccga0Q9MB9tyfbj1FRLCUlm6WsFjpxI-9ynH-kIANYCM2pHAwZ_VTmb9uEQUTkO-0qacFnVeh0SAPn-bCQRSkH6yhigSeFPScyyRxNJab0NDBq1YigTPCvD0fWs5QZA85RR7nKBkeJKCjFB4=w400-h640" width="400" /></a></div><br /><div><br /></div><p></p>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-16403496271120079932022-02-03T12:12:00.004-08:002022-03-10T08:40:18.901-08:00Magic Item Economy<p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEiQZWZaMcNCDC4_yxI89Iaq8-87oDl6Pmc9i5jrBtQhEHWU8TuHYC3rAtm8BMRARiXetTvcEmVZYWLOiijT1pfE9uNOjS3bfXj4MYJXSpJOs-rx9Z6Xhc8zeyS7Tf_IUqS-WVL5eP2hbAsAUEQaQpBaHy74plXGiHzmao5vSZ-w4tvSBTKuI4mgAbA=s455" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="441" data-original-width="455" height="620" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEiQZWZaMcNCDC4_yxI89Iaq8-87oDl6Pmc9i5jrBtQhEHWU8TuHYC3rAtm8BMRARiXetTvcEmVZYWLOiijT1pfE9uNOjS3bfXj4MYJXSpJOs-rx9Z6Xhc8zeyS7Tf_IUqS-WVL5eP2hbAsAUEQaQpBaHy74plXGiHzmao5vSZ-w4tvSBTKuI4mgAbA=w640-h620" width="640" /></a></span></div><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;"><br />Finding magic items is a great incentive for player characters to go adventuring. It rewards them with new powers for the risks they are taking.</span><p></p><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">Gary Gygax strongly maintained in the 1e DMG, that magic items of any kind should <b><i>not </i></b>be for sale, that players had to earn them through adventure at the risk of their PCs lives. After all,</span><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;"> D&D is an adventure game, not a market simulation. </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">5e continues this tradition:</span></p><p></p><blockquote><span style="background-color: white; color: #525960;"><span style="font-family: georgia;">Magic items are gleaned from the hoards of conquered monsters or discovered in long-lost vaults. (DMG p. 135)</span></span></blockquote><p></p><p><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">If magic items would be for sale would depend how rare and unusual magic is. In a world where nearly every village has some hedge wizard or temple with some cleric able to cast spells, and larger towns or nobles have competent, higher level spell casters, magic is common enough that there should be some economy for it.</span></span></p><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">At least simple spell scrolls, or common items like healing potions would be available for sale. In areas where there is a higher concentration of people and spellcasters, like large cities</span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">, there likely even would be markets, and shops or auctions for magic items like for rare and expensive art in our world, and if not, you need to come up with rationales why this would not be so.</span></p><h3 style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;"><span style="background-color: white;"><b>Magic Shops</b></span></span></h3><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">In larger cities there should be shops that cater to spellcaster's needs, buying and selling components, alchemical substances, inks, spellbooks, laboratory equipment and the like. In case the shop is run by a resident mage, he might sell simple scrolls, magic potions or spell services for appropriate prices. </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">For prices, see the </span><a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-dm-screen.html" style="font-family: georgia;">GM Screen on Goods and Services</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">. </span></p><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Occasionally, you may with the right connections, be able to buy a more powerful magic item, maybe for performing a special service for the owner.</span></p><h3><b>Town Mages</b></h3><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">PCs wizards can scribe simple scrolls with moderate effort, and so can NPC wizards. Even wizards of moderate stature can make money from creating and selling scolls. Likewise they can cast useful spells with no direct cost to them as a service and charge handsomely for it to finance their research </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">(cost of components to be covered by the buyer)</span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">.</span></p><div><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">NPC wizards ocassionally sell com</span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">mon, low level spell scolls (mostly to spells <b>that the PCs already have</b>, a great way to limit access to new spells while still maintaining a believable economy). Spells like </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Protection from Evil and Good</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">, </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Magic Missile</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">, </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Detect Magic</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">, </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Shield</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">, </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Mage Armor </i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">or spells that are utter crap for typical campaign play and won't do much for the PCs like </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Jump</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">, </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">False Life </i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">or </span><i style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Illusory Script</i><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">. </span></div><div><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;"><br /></span></div><div><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;"><b>Scrolls</b></span></div><div><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;"><br /></span></div><div><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">The larger the city and higher level the wizard, the more likely one can find higher level scolls or spell access (also detailed on Goods). Anything over third level will be rare, and only found in the largest metropolises or dedicated magical societies.</span></div><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">Allowing the PCs to copy a spell should cost just as much as a scroll -- </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">both can get the spell into the PCs spellbook, and </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: georgia;">while you cannot cast it directly like the scroll copying does not run any risk of losing it without copying it successfully. </span></p><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">There is really <i>nothing </i>that PC wizards like better than copying new spells from NPCs in town, and they gladly would let them copy back as that would not even cost them money. Every new town for the PCs, the first stop is the town mage to see if he has any spells to sell or copy. Why do <i>other</i> </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">wizards not have the same compulsion ? Why are the town mages not eager to swap? W</span><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">hy are there no markets for spell exchange?</span></p><p><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">The real reason of course is that it would make it too easy for the players to get new spells. The in game reason can be that the town mage is wary of <b>c</b></span><b style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">ompetition: </b></p><p><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">Wizards compete with each other for prestige, for winning service business from wealthy patrons, and </span><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">for successfully gutting dungeons for treasure and magic.</span></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;">If I as a town mage equip another wizard with <i>Alarm</i>, <i>Identify </i>or <i>Comprehend Languages</i>, they may open a competing business costing me my lucrative trade. </span></li><li><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;">If I give them <i>Remove Curse, </i>or <i>Stone to Flesh</i><i style="font-weight: bold;">, </i>I lose my leverage to extract whatever large amounts of money and magic items I demand from them for a service they <i>cannot get anywhere else</i>. (Adventurers likely picked bread-and-butter spells like <i>Fireball </i>and <i>Counterspell</i>, that are more useful in everyday adventuring.)</span></li><li><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;"><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;">If I enable other wizards with divination and evasive spells like <i>Clairvoyance</i>, <i>Wizard Eye </i>and <i>Dimension Door</i>, they may use them to plunder my tower.</span></p></span></li><li><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">If I provide them with offensive spells like <i>Fireball</i>, they may use them to hurt me. </span></p></li><li><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: black; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">If I am also an adventurer, or even as a resident mage want to venture out myself, we are directly competing. <i>Anything </i>I hand to them may be used against me.</span></p></li></ul><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">In one game, the town mage allowed the players to copy </span><i style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">Floating Disk</i><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;">, and then after he learned about a huge treasure trove they had come upon, watched with dismay as they used it to carry off most of the weighty coins they otherwise would have had to leave behind for him.</span><div><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;"><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;">So, if anything, the town mage could making a counter </span></div><div><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;"><br /></span></div><div><span style="color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, Times New Roman, Times, serif;">NPC town wizards services should be unfairly expensive. The players have no alternative, and most likely do not have a good use for much of their gold anyways. It would not be uncommon for the wizard asking for magic potions or consumable items in exchange for a simple casting of a spell, on top of the gp cost. <br /></span><div><span style="background-color: white; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif;"> </span></div><h3 style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;"><b style="font-family: georgia;">Temples</b></h3><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="background-color: white; font-family: georgia;">Likewise, simple healing potions can be fabricated by temples, to be given to the believers that are able to make an appropriate donation. </span></p><div><br /></div><h3 style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: left; vertical-align: baseline;"><b style="font-family: georgia;">Wizard Guilds and Libraries</b></h3><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="background-color: white;">Why are there no colleges, and libraries, where you can research spells? With a higher level of Magic, t</span><span style="background-color: white;">here could be. Access may be limited to members in good standing, and cost significant fees, as compiling, protecting and maintaining these troves of knowledge is both costly and in most places a monopoly. </span></p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; color: #232629; font-family: Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Guilds regulate the distribution of knowledge to secure their might. They have librarys full of spells accessible only to their members (and that can be used as the source for the "free" spells the PCs get to pick when gaining levels), who pay dues and have to follow guild law. To make these spells be generally available would undermine the guild's power, so the first law of most guilds is that spells may not be shared with outsiders. Countries and cities where guilds are established regulate all trade in magic, and typically block it.</p><p style="border: 0px; box-sizing: inherit; clear: both; font-stretch: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-variant-numeric: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin-bottom: var(--s-prose-spacing); margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><br /></p></div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-14713798919731035792021-09-12T05:29:00.047-07:002021-09-16T04:54:48.974-07:00Conan the Barbarian<p>The fantastic Conan short stories from the 1930s by Robert E. Howard were a major source of inspiration for D&D: evil sorcerers, pitch-black dungeons, labyrinthine lost cities, thieves quarters, monsters, the hunt for treasure in ancient ruins. </p><p>There are good sources online for Conan, a <a href="https://conan.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page">Wiki</a>, and a site for <a href="https://hyboria.xoth.net/index.htm">d20 conversions</a>. I'm focusing only on the published short stories that were written by REH alone, not on those that were later written, sometimes based on fragments of his.</p><p><b>Conan and D&D</b></p><p>In spite of them being a big inspriration for D&D, D&D is a bad system for creating Conaneseq play experiences, even more so for the more modern "super-heroic" versions of D&D than for OD&D. </p><p></p><ul><li><b>In D&D, players have access to spellcasting</b>. In the stories, the evil high priest or sorcerer is always the opponent, Conan at best has questionable allies that have some access to it. Sorcery is a sinister force, to be overcome with a clean sword stroke. </li><li><b>In D&D, spells are easily used and direct. </b>Most magic in the stories is wrought trough use of magical artefacts or through alchemical substances, rather than spells. Sorcerers suggest, dominate or mesmerize, or call and control monsters to do their bidding. There are few direct spell effects like fireball or teleport. Instead wizards summon a whirling cloud to fly in, or a winged demon to ride on. </li><li><b style="font-weight: bold;">In D&D beasts are weak. </b>Most <span style="font-weight: 400;">monsters in the stories are essentially dire beasts, with the occasional demon thrown in. Huge, poisonous snakes; sabertooth tigers; gorillas ("grey apes"), and a </span><span style="font-weight: 400;">dinosaur. The latter is called a "dragon" by Conan, but is is just a huge stegosaurus, without treasure, flight, intelligence or fire breath. And these beasts are deadly opponents, it always is a close shave with death if Conan has to fight one, and he generally tries to avoid them.</span></li><li><b>D&D has level-based hit points</b>. In Conan there is a scene where he does not dare attack a guard equipped with a crossbow, as he is unarmored and a single hit could kill him. In another a single sling stone knocks him out cold. In fights against beasts, Conan often has one shot at a killing blow to not be crushed to death. In D&D a high level character just can take such attacks, shrug them off, and kill the offender. Conan at the hight of his power is overcome by a dozen common harbor rogues and half a dozen armored city guards are too much for him to fight through. In D&D, a lord could mow down a dozen common men.</li></ul><div>Gygax developed <a href="http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2010/06/gygax-on-conan.html">D&D stats for Conan</a> himself, and the abilites inelegantly are modeled as mix of fighter and thief (at inflated levels). Later the Barbarian class was created to make this easier. In 5e, Barbarians have a danger sense (though it does not work blind as it does for Conan), but still no stealth. One can fix that with the Criminal background, however, this ability, alongside perception and climibing skills, is depicted to come from barbarian life in the wilderness. </div><div><br /></div><div>Runequest, a skill based, non-class based system with fixed hit points, would be a much better fit.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Conan's World</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Here is my take on the major kingdoms and empires of Hyperborea, based on the decriptions in the stories. I think the major point to learn here is how by playing on tropes from movies, on stereotypes and on ancient history, with names that resonate real world cultures, you can convey a lot in little space, and brings people, cities and cultures to live.</div><div><br /></div><div>He himslelf wrote an essay about the "Hyborean Age", on how these cultures later evolved into the ancient world ones (Egypt, Babylon, the Mongols, Huns, Semites etc.), after the southwest broke of at the Styx/Nile to create Africa, so one can note how the relative neighborhood of these cultures on the map matches those of the European, African and Asian continents, but I think in the stories, he pretty much riffs of of the ancient cultures of earth directly. </div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://hyboria.xoth.net/maps/hyboria.gif" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="542" data-original-width="800" height="434" src="https://hyboria.xoth.net/maps/hyboria.gif" width="640" /></a></div><div style="text-align: center;">Map credit: GURPS book on Conan, from <a href="https://hyboria.xoth.net/maps/index.htm">hyborea.xoth.net</a></div><div><br /></div><div>The tech levels of these cultures consequently vary widely from savages to bronze age, to ancient mesoptoamian and hellenistic all the way up to medieval (with chainmail, knights and plate armor). </div><div><br /></div><div><b>Vanaheim, Asgard</b>: Norse myths with giants, so Icelandic, Norwegian, Danish Viking culture. Vanir (Red-haired), Aesir (Blond-haired).</div><div><b>Hyperborea</b>: the home of powerful witches. Cult: Louhi, Bori</div><div><b>Cimmeria: </b>nordic, white, barbarians. Feels close to Germanic tribes. Cult: Crom </div><div><br /></div><div><b>Pictish Wilderness</b>: similar to Scotland, before civilization. Cult: Animistic.</div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><b>Brythannia</b>: blonde, white skinned folk. Medieval Britain.</div><div><b>Nemedia</b>: Medieval, knightly warfare. He has it as proto-Ireland, I think Germany. Cults: Mitras, Ibis</div><div><b>Aquilonia</b>: Central European Medieval, knightly warfare. Has provinces Potain with Knights that feels a bit like northern Italy, Gunderland with Piketiers and the Bossonian Marches with Archers that feel a bit like Swizerland and Poland. Could be Aquitaine/Aragon in sourthern France/Northern Spain, but lacks sea access. Cult: Mitras. Capital Tarantina.</div><div><b>Border Kingdoms</b>: No specific country, and I think no stories set there. Could be smaller countries, like Austria, Boehmia, Sowakia etc.</div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><i>Mediterranean (he has the issue that this sea is missing, instead he has the Vilayet)</i></div><div><b>Argos</b>: Southern European, Greece or Roman. </div><div><b>Zingara</b>: Pirates. A feel of Andalusia in Spain, Cordoba and the Barbary coast. Cult: Isthar, Mitra, Bel</div><div><b>Corinthia</b>: Asia Minor like City States. Cult: Anu, Isthar, Bel?</div><div><b>Barachan Isles:</b> Carribean</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Middle Eastern</i></div><div><div><b>Shem</b>: Olive skin, blue-black beards, hawk noses. Semitic Peoples and Cultures. Think Lebanon, Palestine. Cult: Ishtar, Bel, Set, Pteor, Nergal, Asthoreth. </div><div><b>Koth</b>: Mesopotamian formerly Archeron, feels assyrian with king Strabonus. Cult: Isthar, Bel, Set. </div></div><div><b>Ophir</b>: Shamu sounds mesopotamian, so Babylon (North/South switch with Assyria)? Cult: Isthar, Bel</div><div></div><div><b>Zamora</b>: Dark-skinned, dark-haired; thieves, assassins, spies. Mixed Arabs, Scicilians. No coast, normal for a melting pot like this, but explained as on the border between the mesopotamia, steppe and central powers.</div><div><div><b>Khauran</b>, <b>Kohjara</b>: examples for small kingdoms, like Syria.</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Asia</i></div><div><b>Kozak Steppes</b>: Balkans, Huns. </div><div><b>Tauran</b>: middle Eastern, Mogul Empire. </div><div><b>Eastern Desert</b>: Arabia. </div><div><b>Hyrkania</b>: Mongol Empire.</div><div><b>Kushan</b>: a small Balkan country. </div><div><div><b>Iranistan</b>: the name says it all. </div><div><b>Isles of Pearl</b>: </div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>Oriental</i></div><div><b>Meru/Himelians</b>: Himalayah. </div><div><b>Kithai</b>: China.</div><div><b>Kambuja</b>: Capital Angkor. Cambodja. Cult: Ganesha </div><div><b>Uttara Kuru</b>:</div><div><b>Vendhya</b>: India. </div><div><b>Ghulistan</b>: Afghanistan </div><div><b>Kosala:</b> </div><div><b>Misty Isles</b>: Spice Islands in the Indian Ocean.</div><div><br /></div><div><i>African</i></div><div><div><b>Stygia</b>: Tawny folk. Egypt, Cult: <b>Set</b>, Derekto. Capital Luxor, main city Khemri.</div><div><b>Kush</b>: black kingdoms south of Egypt. </div></div><div><b>Darfar</b>: black cannibals, filed teeth.</div><div><b>Keshan, </b><b>Punt, </b><b>Zembabwei, </b><b>Black Kingdoms</b>: various black Afrikan kingdoms</div><div><b>Southern Isles</b>: I have less knowledge of African empires, and islands.</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Stories</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Here are the stories in publication order in synopsis, with the magic, monsters and opponents encountered. Stars are how well I liked them (* least, ***** most).</div><ol style="text-align: left;"><li><strong>The Phoenix on the Sword****:</strong> 8,823 words. Tarantia, capital of Aquilonia. Traitorous nobles & bard, baboon-demon, Toth-Amon, evil sorcerer (dependend on his serpent ring). Serpent ring, magic Sword (endowed by Epemitreus the sage through dream). </li><li><strong>The Scarlet Citadel*****:</strong> 15,446 words. Aquilonia, Ophir (Plains of Shamu), Koth (Korsemish, the captial, especially Tsotha-Lanthi's dungeons). Treacherous armies of Amalrus of Ophir with Strabonus of Koth, Tsotha-Lanthi the Wizard, eunuch, giant poison snake, gibbering mouther, bottomless pit in darkness, hell-plant, ursurping prince. Ally: Pelias the Wizard. Spells: animate dead, scrying/crystal ball, summon monster (giant demon-bat), polymorph.</li><li><strong>The Tower of the Elephant****:</strong> 9,726 words. Zamora, City of Thieves. Lions, a poisonous giant spider. Yak-Sotha, the imprisioned Elephant God; Yara, evil high priest</li><li><strong>Black Colossus*****:</strong> 14,346 words. Ruins of Kutchemes, Kingdom of Kohjara. Giant poison snake, Natohk's spirit shadow, Natohk's desert nomad army, polymorphing winged ape demon, Thugra Khotan, 3000-year old evil re-awakened sorcerer-king a.k.a. Natohk the Veiled One,. Spells & Items: Firepowder, morale-boosting spell, sticks to snakes. </li><li><strong>The Slithering Shadow***:</strong> 12,897. Xuthal, Ruined City in the Deserts of Kush. Opium-drugged citicens, Thalys the Stygian Witch, Thog the shadow demon. Healing potion wine. It feels as if this city (plus Red Nails) inspired B4, The Lost City. Cool story, weak name. (Title turns out to not be Howard's Original. He had named it "Xuthal of the Dusk").</li><li><strong>The Pool of the Black One***:</strong> 11,252 words. Isle of the Black one. Black humanoids. Magical transforming pool with leashing out water tentacle. Sleep poison fruit. </li><li><strong>Rogues in the House***:</strong> 9,676 words. Corinthia. Rogue, Grey Ape-Man, Nabonidus the Red Priest. Lens systems, Portcullis, ironglass drop-walls & poison dust, no spells.</li><li><strong>The Frost Giant’s Daughter**:</strong> 3,284 words. Vanaheim. Frost Giants, Atali, daughter of Ymir.</li><li><strong>Iron Shadows in the Moon**:</strong> 12,123 words. Vilayet Sea. Lord Shah Amurath, Pirates, Grey Ape, animated iron statues.</li><li><strong>Queen of the Black Coast**:</strong> 11,334 words. Argos, Sea, River Zarkheba. Bêlit the Pirate Queen & Pirates, giant water serpent, black lotus, hyena-weres, winged ape-demon.</li><li><strong>The Devil in Iron***:</strong> 12,292 words. Island of Xapur, City of Khawarizm on the Vilayet Sea. Giant poisonous snake, ironskinned Demon-God Koshatral Kel, Lord Jehungir Agha. Moonsilver Dagger. Time Magic (restored Ruins, inclusive of inhabitants). </li><li><strong>The People of the Black Circle***:</strong> 30,890 words. Vendhya (capital Ayodhya, provice Peshkauri), Afghulistan (Khyber pass, Yimsha - the Mountain of the Black Seers in the Himelians). Wazuli tribesman, Khemsa the Wizard, Rakshasas (defeated by destryoing artefact powering them). This is the story with by far the most wizards and spells being slung. Death Curse (using a lock of hair), Cloudkill, Hypnotism/Dominate, Black Ball/Poison Spider, Crimson Cloud (Fly), Hold Person, Polymorph any Object, Wall of Force, Rip out Heart, Polymorph Self; lava and stone block traps; disintegration bubbles, earthquake horn, magic girdle (of spell resistance). </li><li><strong>A Witch Shall be Born**:</strong> 16,337 words. Khauran. Salome the Witch, Zhaug the Frog-Demon. Crystal of Communication. Too long for the action.</li><li><strong>Jewels of Gwahlur**:</strong> 17,167 words. Keshan, palace of Alkmeenon, forbidden valley. Crushing Stone Trap, Thutmekri the Stygian rogue, Ape-creatures. Feels constructed, with the Jewels lost.</li><li><strong>Beyond the Black River**:</strong> 21,799 words. Pictish Wildernss (Conajohara, Fort Tuscelan & Velitrium). Pictish warriors, sabertooth tiger, giant snake, leopard, panther, Zogar Sag the Witchdoctor and his swamp devil (a Will'-o-Wisp like demon, half man, half bird). Shamanistic conjurations and geas/suggestions. </li><li><strong>Shadows in Zamboula***:</strong> 12,146 words. Zamboula in southern Turan. Cannibals, Baal-Pteor - huge fighter, Totrasmek evil arch priest, Aram-Baksh the Innkeeper. Hypnotic Powers, Illusions. Magical Charming Ring Star of Khorala. Originally called "The man-eaters of Zamboula". </li><li><strong>Red Nails*****: </strong>30,946 words. Xuchotl, south of Sukhmet. Dinosaur, Spectral Skull Shaman, citicens of Xuchotl, giant snake, Olmec the prince, bear trap, Tascela the ageless witch, Tolcemek the Adept. Dominate, Steal Youth; Spectral Skull (similar to Flameskull), Pipes of Madness, Rod of necrotic lightning. This is one of the most influential stories, the maze-like, 4-level plus catacombs city being the poster child for OD&D dungeons with factions and empty rooms. </li><li><strong>The Hour of the Dragon***:</strong> 72,375 words. Aquilonia, Nemedia, Argos, Zingara, Stygia. Armies of Nemedia, "Child of Darkness" paralyzing Cold-Demon, Soldiers & Jailers, Nemedian Adventurer, Tracking Raven, Nemedian Soldiers, Grey Ape, Executioner, Courtiers, Ghouls, Rogues, Giant Snake, Priest of Set, Vampire, Kithan Monk/Wizard, Xatlotun the Wizard from Archeron, Armies of Nemedia once more. Black pestilence wind, cleansing wind, Earthquake collapsing Cliffs, "Rending the Veil" Scrying past and distant events, Prophecy, Knock, "Black Hand of Seth" (Inflict Wounds?), Death Dust, Control Weather, Heart of Ariman. The hunt after the heart, wich always narrowly eludes Conan feels forced. Maybe this could have been short story like Scarlet Citadel, if all that had been cut out, and the story had gone directly to overcoming Xaltoun after Conan's escape. Of course, this way we get more fights, shady dealings, world-building and evil sorcery. Published as "Conan the Conqueror".</li></ol><ul><li style="list-style-type: none;"></li></ul><p>REH had chapters around 2,700 to 3,500 words, on average 3,089 words. </p><p>Out of 18 stories, 10 times his main antagonist is some kind of evil sorcerer or evil priest (there is no clear difference in these stories between them), with one more case where the wizard is dead but his minions remain, so nearly two thirds. In the remaining cases, it directly is a demon, god-like creature or supernatural weirdness like the black pool on the island or the statues that animate in moonlight, or the demon Thog (where a witch is thrown in for good measure). There is no story where it only is "swords" against "swords" of rogues and fighters. It always is swords & sorcery. </p><p>I find it interesting that the publication order of the stories has nothing to do with the timeline in which they happen in-world. Howard starts out with Conan being king of Aquilonia in the first story, (at the end of his career, apparently re-purposing another story) to then goes over his adventures first as a thief, then as a pirate, mercenary and leader of pirates and mercenaries. Here is a <a href="http://www.barbariankeep.com/cnchronds.html">scholary discussion</a> of the <a href="https://conan.fandom.com/wiki/Chronology#Miller.2FClark.2Fde_Camp_chronology">timeline of Conan stories</a>. </p><p><b>In brief:</b> </p><p>Conan starts out in Cimmeria, travels into the North (<i>Frost Giants Daughter</i>), attemts to loot a Nemedian treasure house and is caught (God in the Bowl, unpublished), and after that decides to learn how to <b>become a thief</b>, traveling to Zamora (<i>Tower of the Elephant</i>). Eventually he must leave, and travels via neighboring city states (<i>Rogues in the House</i>), finally decides to try something else. This ends his "thief" phase. </p><p>He hires on as a <b>mercenary</b> joining the "Free Companions" that plunder Koth, Zamora and Turan, until they are destroyed by the Turan army under Shah Amurath, whom he slays fleeing to the Vilayet Sea (<i>Shadows in the Moonlight</i>). He wins a pirate ship and crew, loses them again (off screen), and becomes a mercenary for the Hyrkanian army and learns to use a bow, fighting a losing fight against king Yezdigerd of Turan. This ends his phase as a simple mercenary. </p><p>Traveling back west he enlists for the mercenary army of Almaric of Nemedia as a <b>mercenary captain</b>, which supports queen Yasmela of Khoraja, and gets to <b>lead the army</b> against the re-risen sorcerer-king Natohk (<i>Black Colossus</i>). Leaving her service in the resulting peace, he travels to Argos, has a run in with the law and must flee the city by sea. The merchant ship is captured by pirate queen Bêlit, who takes him as her consort and together <b>as pirates they plunder the coast</b>, until she and the crew perish in an expedition to the lost city of Zarkheba (<i>Queen of the Black Coast</i>). </p><p>He leaves hires again with Almaric, who is fighting a rebel war against King Strabonus of Koth. As the rebels are destroyed by the Stygian black plage, Conan flees into the southern desert, where he encounters the forgotten city of Xuthal (<i>Xuthal of the Dusk</i>). He returns North via Darfar and Lake Zuad, and hires as a <b>captain of the guard </b>in Khauran (<i>A Witch Shall be Born</i>). After saving the queen, he remains a <b>leader of Zuagir raiders</b>, plundering Shemitish City-States and Turanian outposts, until Turan fields an army against them. He moves North, joining the kozaki bandits and working his way up through the ranks there until he becomes the <b>hetman of the kozaki</b>. Making an alliance with the pirates of the Vilayet, he continues plundering Turan, who set an unsuccessful trap for him (<i>The Devil in Iron</i>). Finally the spy Kerim Shah manages to betray him and have his troups are destroyed (of screen).</p><p>Conan moves on to Afghulistan, where he becomes a <b>war chief of the Afghuil hill tribes</b>, plundering Turan and Vedhya. Yedzigerd of Turan enlists an archwizard to kill the king of Vendhya and Conan helps Vendhyas devi Yasmina to take revenge (<i>People of the Black Circle</i>), and realizes the hill tribes cannot challenge these strong empires. He travels to Zamboula, where he squanders his wealth (<i>Shadows in Zamboula</i>), and flees the city with a sack of gold and a magical ring which he hopes to sell to the queen of Ophir. </p><p>Some unpublished adventures later as a Barachan pirate plundering Argos, Zingara, and Stygia, he escapes a trap in Tortage in a leaky rowboat and joins Zingaran freebooters, taking over ship and girl (<i>Pool of the Black Ones</i>), until a storm destroys all. </p><p>A wanted man in Argos, Stygia, Zingara, and Turan, he travels to Aquilonia and hires with the <b>military at the Pictish border</b> (<i>Beyond the Black River</i>). After other adventures, he rejoins the "Free Companions", and meets Valeria, whom he follows to the lost city of Xuchotl (<i>Red Nails</i>) and the Black Coast, Valeria returning to the sea. Conan travels to Keshan, to steal fabled juwels (<i>Jewels of Gwahlur</i>), but fails. </p><p>He returns to Aquilonia, and there he raises quickly through the army ranks and <b>leads a regiment of mercenaries</b>. After defeating an invading Zingaran army together with the knights of Potain, count Trocero of Potain challenges king Namedides's rule and supports Conan's bid for the throne. Together they defeat the army of Namedides, March on Tarantia, and, at age 40, Conans strangles Namedides on the Throne to become king. Thus ends the long an varied phase of being a leader of mercenaries and pirates. </p><p>Now Conan is <b>king of Aquilonia.</b> He survives an assassination attempt by dissenting nobles (<i>The Phoenix and the Sword</i>), then is betrayed by Ophir and captured (<i>The Scarlet Citadel</i>), but escapes and returns in time to save his kingdom. He again is captured and defeated through black magic by an ancient sorcerer raised from the dead, and his kindom is conquered, but he but escapes with the help of the seraglio girl Zenobia, wins it back and makes her his queen (<i>The Hour of the Dragon</i>). Here the stories of Conan end.</p><p><br /></p>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-25413236514153590512021-08-14T12:13:00.003-07:002021-09-18T14:55:18.224-07:00Theatre of the Mind<h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Theatre of the Mind</b></h3><p>The reason for not using gridded combat and miniatures was that the game was one of imagination. All the technical stuff like rules, gridded movement and so on kicked you right out of that imagination, and out of the flow of action.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQjA5JDsbdsqANF_-PODCmybNHmLM5BRBo4wBdKeND-pXL9MXKnuCf8ryPYXmzbDRn5RRYHa7oG_IB2_osUNwMlcjhoXwFCpmQKXqgLyqNjKVEKY_wHL-4TcoL5huYqXfuyyZv0tUUY0S1/s1635/Theatre+of+the+Mind.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1605" data-original-width="1635" height="628" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQjA5JDsbdsqANF_-PODCmybNHmLM5BRBo4wBdKeND-pXL9MXKnuCf8ryPYXmzbDRn5RRYHa7oG_IB2_osUNwMlcjhoXwFCpmQKXqgLyqNjKVEKY_wHL-4TcoL5huYqXfuyyZv0tUUY0S1/w640-h628/Theatre+of+the+Mind.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><br /><p><br /></p><p><b>No miniatures or grid</b></p><p><i>Gary never used maps or minis: maps and minis were Dave Arneson’s thing. Gary ran games in his office, which was provided with chairs, a couch, and file cabinets. While playing, Gary would open the drawers of the file cabinet and sit behind them so that the players COULD NOT SEE HIM. They only experienced the Dungeon Master as a disembodied voice. </i>[29]</p><div><i>No, as far as I am concerned miniature figurines are more of an impediment to the imagination required for RPGing than they are a help...save in combat situations.</i> <i>However, as RPGs are not meant to be accurate/realistic combat simulation exercises, the use of miniatures tends to cause an erroneous focus to the play. </i>[<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>We left tabletop miniatures battles behind in favor of the RPG. When mass-combat took place the DMs I played with, as well as me personally, abstracted the battles to contests between the principal figures, did quick attrition of the ordinary forces, and then used morale to determine when one side or the other broke. The reason for that is that the players did not want to wargame thay wanted to engage in RPGing.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26882">11</a>]</div><div><p><i>I don't usually employ miniatures in my RPG play. We ceased that when we moved from CHAINMAIL Fantasy to D&D. </i><i>I have nothing against the use of miniatures, but they are generally impractical for long and free-wheeling campaign play where the scene and opponents can vary wildly in the course of but an hour. #1721</i></p><div><i>When we began playing D&D all the time nobody cared much about using figurines, we seldom if ever did then, although there was a considerable demand for a D&D line, so eventually Grenadier was granted the license to produce the official line for them,</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I am lucky to get a half-hour's prep time, so I use scratch paper and dice on the table top to indicate the position of figures. When all is said and done, the RPG is an exercise of imagination, and no embellishments need be added...although illustrations are most helpful to the GM.</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><b>No screen, props, music</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>I seldom use a screen, but I don't leave notes in view of the players--the map sometimes, but not other written material. #2055</i></div><p><i>I usually don't use any other props, but once in a while I will slip something in if I think it will liven things up. The exploding scroll tube is a good example of what I mean. #2864</i></p><div><i>I never use music as it is already quite difficult to manage to speak and retain the players' attention. #8068</i></div><p><b>Immersion</b></p><div><i>What I attempt is to have the party behave as would real persons in a confused situation. [11]</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-72018042564940739052021-08-14T08:59:00.012-07:002021-09-23T11:07:33.292-07:00Persistence of deeds<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivSDvRw42OTzfx7GRxElAcQqkCGIWL_PcfEGxAizoxlcrAgOvq2NRV7BsgFZH9SoVbWs6X1702sPnwFrPNpugARjvZJNxpOzXnorLuCxBVwPD58fRxiTIY8J1-ilgkNrBMSla0jOXkvKGa/s1472/Persistence.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1200" data-original-width="1472" height="522" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivSDvRw42OTzfx7GRxElAcQqkCGIWL_PcfEGxAizoxlcrAgOvq2NRV7BsgFZH9SoVbWs6X1702sPnwFrPNpugARjvZJNxpOzXnorLuCxBVwPD58fRxiTIY8J1-ilgkNrBMSla0jOXkvKGa/w640-h522/Persistence.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><br />After reading a lot about the campaign world and style of the Great Greyhawk and Blackmoor campaigns, I've come to realize that <b>persistence</b> was one of the major implicit ideas that made the game world real: the idea that what happened in play with any group, <i>changed the world for all groups</i>.<p></p><p><span style="font-family: inherit;">T</span><span style="font-family: inherit;">he castle, with several groups playing in it [7] was a living thing. </span>If one group slew monsters, plundered treasure or destroyed a wall, the monsters would be dead, the treasure gone, the wall demolished for the others. If you wasted time, some other party might take advantage of you and get to the treasure first. This experience must have made it feel much more a real place to the players, than a typical "adventure" that just provides a story around the characters. You would run into houses or keeps other players had built, could meet them sometimes even as NPCs. </p><div><i>Hundreds of different players with yet more PCs adventured in city and castle, blasted buildings, created constructions, wiped out walls, closed passages, created new ones, trashed monsters, brought in others, and who can say what else! </i>[15]</div><div><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div><span style="font-family: inherit;">James Ward:</span><span style="font-family: inherit;"> </span><i style="font-family: inherit;">I didn't find out until years later that Terry Kuntz se</i><i style="font-family: inherit;">t up a flunky hiring building in Greyhawk. Characters were constantly looking for flunkies to help in the battles. I hired one of those myself in a dwarf and raised him up to sixth level. Later I found out Terry's characters were hired by others and went back and told Terry about places in the dungeon that were worth raiding.</i><span style="font-family: inherit;"> [30.3]</span></div><p>The dungeon, city and rules were constantly changing and expanding. The OD&D rules are chock full of advise how to modify the dungeon [1] to keep things interesting. Gary (and later Rob) generally did not "reset" the dungeon by restocking the monsters and treasures for the next group -- what was gone was gone, but they modified the dungeon constantly by adding new levels, rooms, or changing existing ones or bringing in new monsters in longer-deserted regions.</p><div><div><span><i>When the setting was in constant use, we never restocked, just drafted new side and deeper levels, as it was assumed that the depredations of the cruel PC parties kept the monsters away in fear and loathing </i> [6 #3827]</span></div><p><span></span></p><div><span style="font-family: inherit;"><em>When the encounter was eliminated I simply drew a line through it, and the place was empty for the foreseeable future. </em>[2]</span></div></div><p>In later days, Gary ran his first level of the original dungeon at conventions, and his kobolds caused numerous total party kills against players only used to balanced encounters. The kobolds, in a self-reinforcing loop, got stronger from this each time, and even deadlier for the next group. Here is a detail evolution in a post from Gary [<a href="https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/piedpiperpublishing/la-essentials-t2280-s10.html#p29864">17</a>]:</p><p><i>I have run OD&D games every year at several cons for the last five or so years. I start them at 2nd level and use the old dungeon levels. So far about eight parties have been taken out by some kobolds on the 1st level. New RPGers seem to have not learned to run away when in doubt. <br /></i><i>The first to fall used a sleep spell to get eight of the kobolds, but the six remaining ones used javelins to kill two PCs, then closed and in hand-to-hand killed all but two or the remainder of the party. One was about to kill another PC, while a second charged the m-u of the group, who turned to flee, finally. Too late, a javelin got him. Each group that died thus added to the kobolds:</i></p><p><i>1st TPK brought 12 more kobolds<br /></i><i>2nd TPK gave them armor class of 6<br /></i><i>3rd (near) TPK gave them all +1 HP<br /></i><i>4th TPK added +1 damage<br /></i><i>5th TPK added 4 2nd level and 2 3rd level kobolds<br /></i><i>6th TPK gave them tactical manouvering and a 4th level leader<br /></i><i>7th TPK upped AC to 5<br /></i><i>8th TPK gave them unshakable morale</i></p><p><i>At JanCon this year the Old Guard Kobolds joined battle with a group of 8 PCs and wiped them out. I haven't decided how that will add to their combat ability, but I am considering a kobold shaman with at least two 1st level spells.</i></p><p>Even though in his home campaign, his group of 5th level characters then finally killed the buggers, he argued that this had been an alternate version of the castle, and bringing in the best from history, the Old Guard Kobolds with all the above advantages and with the shaman added show up in the first level of the published Castle Zagyg [7]. Essentially the idea here is the same -- even over years of play: what happened happened, and will be part of the world.</p><p>Another example is that the home game group, real-world decades later, found the hidden level where Erac had perished, and revived him. </p><p>In the words of the author of <a href="http://blogofholding.com/?p=4050">blog of holding</a>: <i>I’m still not sure what player skill is in OD&D, and I still think it has something to do with battle tactics, trapfinding procedures, and gaming the DM. But I’m also starting to think it has something to do with respecting the gameworld as a world.</i></p>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-52122908752211184782021-08-14T08:05:00.015-07:002021-09-19T12:03:23.491-07:00Variety for Campaign Longevity<p><b>Variety in challenges and activities</b></p><p>Gygax believed the key to an enjoyable game was variety in activities: </p><p></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><b>fights and action </b>("roll-play"), </li><li><b>talk and interaction </b>("role-play"), and </li><li><b>problem solving and exploration</b> </li></ul><div><i>Fixation on a single aspect of the RPG form makes for tedious play to my thinking. All combat, all exploration, all yakking, all problem solving, all any single thing is downright dull. Balanced play is about half of the favored aspect, with the others having lesser time in the adventure session--sometimes hardly any, although they should then dominate a near-future session.</i> #6459</div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Forget the business about role-playing. It is as boring as rule-playing and roll-playing are when made the focus of the game. Notice that I stress game, as that's what is the main operative word in the description of the activity. The majority of persons engaged in RPG activity love to go on dungeon crawls, so the ToH was designed to challenge the best of that lot. #2359</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>As false to the game form as the pre-scripted "story," is play that has little more in it than seek and destroy missions, vacuous effort where the participants fight and kill some monster so as to gain more power and thus be able to look for yet more potent opponents in a spiral that leads nowhere save eventual boredom. So pure hack and slash play is anathema to me too.</i> [36]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div>What he thought to be a detraction of the fun was</div><div><ul><li><b>focus on and arguing over rules </b>("rule-play")</li></ul></div><div><i>Over some decades of gaming, the creation of some number of RPG systems, I have come to the point where I prefer a rules-light system [...]. I do not like to rule-play, and as a GM I find long lists of stats and the like tedious. Such things tend to get in the way for my style of play, including as a PC. While I do enjoy plenty of roll-playing (after all I am a military miniatures player too), centering the game on combat seems fatuotous to me. I want a game that facilitates all of the elements of the RPG. #535</i></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Most people enjoy roll-playing and role-playing, but rule-playing is a complete bore #8523</i></div><div><br /></div></div>He felt that discussing rules was <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/od-rules-light-system.html">never enjoyable</a>, and a focus on rules only limited the imagination. It is focused on artificial simplifications that never can do a situation believable justice. It also is less likely to be objectively resolved in a stress sitution for the characters. In my opinion, the best way to resolve these issues is to have the DM make a call, accept it, take a note of it, and research it after the game to agree how to handle it going forward if it comes up again. </div><div><br /></div><div><b>Variety in Adventure Type</b></div><div><br /></div><div>There also was variety in the environments -- mixing up dungeon delving with wilderness exploration, with city adventure and intrigue.</div><div><br /></div><div><div><span><div style="font-style: italic;">Mix up the adventure settings so that play is not always in the same dort of place. A town adventure leads to a wilderness trek, that brings the party to a subterranian setting for example. From there they might have a waterborne or aerial mission. #6966</div></span></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><b>Variety in Genre </b></div></div><div><br /></div><div>Beyond event the kind of adventures, when people got bored with the medieval fantasy he leavened it with adventuring in other genres -- from Science Fiction or Planetary Romance on Barsoom or Vance's Planet of Adventure, to settings inspired by movies like King-Kong, or books like Alice in Wonderland, even to adventures in contemporary New York City. In this, the backdrop stayed the medieval fantasy campaign, but he had about one session in ten with such other environments, to keep it fun. </div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Spot in in regards to having PCs adventure in different environments. I believe that keeps them, and the GM alike from growing complacent, or bored. </i><i>Ernie's PC read a curse scroll and got sent to Barsoon--ERB's Mars, of course. </i> #1842</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Actually, the scope need not be restricted to the medieval; it can stretch from the prehistoric to the imagined future, but such expansion is recommended only at such time as the possibilities in the</i></div><div><i>medieval aspect have been thoroughly explored.</i> [1, Introduction].</div></div><div><br /></div><div>These days, rather than breaking the versisimilitude of the world by doing this, I'd rather just play some other system for variety. In our student days, we alternated D&D with Call of Cthulhu, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And even back then there were Traveller, Boot Hill and so on.</div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgs88Q1w8ZOI-4T01EYBmuimakDvfXu4DVZD52yHciqDzywhtuhN6RFP_RraJkiY7d-lRn0red8eZh-pnXjMjOiwUfQ9WMCWXPfEuvcfYBDj-Kdyq0haqdhF9n9PTyJiW2WpG4gdZyyPfWM/s1776/Variety.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="720" data-original-width="1776" height="260" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgs88Q1w8ZOI-4T01EYBmuimakDvfXu4DVZD52yHciqDzywhtuhN6RFP_RraJkiY7d-lRn0red8eZh-pnXjMjOiwUfQ9WMCWXPfEuvcfYBDj-Kdyq0haqdhF9n9PTyJiW2WpG4gdZyyPfWM/w640-h260/Variety.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><br /><div><br /></div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-48770567069203668552021-07-30T13:55:00.021-07:002022-01-14T09:10:33.149-08:00Rules-Light Play<div><div>The original D&D rules were very light, and left a lot of undefined space that allowed the DM to adjucate outcomes on the fly without wasting time to look up the rule or a player being able to cite a rule to the contrary. Gary also was not above ignoring any rules, to keep the game flowing. </div><div><br /></div></div><div>Why was this so, and was this a good thing?</div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://geekymanifestos.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/rules-lawyers.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="500" data-original-width="500" height="500" src="https://geekymanifestos.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/rules-lawyers.jpg" width="500" /></a></div><div><b><br /></b></div><h3 style="text-align: left;"><b>Immersion</b></h3><p>The number one, biggest advantage to simple rules and ad-hoc adjucation is that you do not have to spend time to look something up. This means the immersive play experience is not interrupted. </p><div><i>Digging around in rules books is much the same as having the film break or the TV station experience transmission difficulties during an exciting program...a loss of the unagined participation. #7881</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>When I am DMing AD&D, I tend to ignore rules that get in the way of the flow of the game. #272</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div style="font-style: italic;">Generally, I just DMed on the fly, so to speak, and didn't use the rules books except for random encounters, monster stats, and treasure. when hand-to-hand fighting occurred I usually did that seat-of-the-pants rules--asking what the character was doing and deciding on the chance for success based on the circumstances. #692</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>[T]he only time [Gary] consulted the rules was when he gave out experience points for killed monsters and treasures. He made moving through his dungeon come alive. We could easily imagine the sights, sounds, and even the smells as he described the chambers and the corridors. </i>[30.2]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>A good DM has read the rules, knows the spirit of the game, and is aiming at captivating his player audience with the fantastic experience of the campaign, so he can make up what is necessary on the spot. </i><i> #7881</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>The rules-light game facilitates freedom for all participants to exercise imagination and innovation without undue constraint. That encourages gaming rather than rule-playing. In short, I believe it encourages creativity in all participants, and allows greater immersion in the game milieu, not the mechanics that form the game #1298</i></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The main assumption to follow is that a credible fantasy game does not seek to simulate reality beyond that stage necessary for the participants to immerse themselves in it.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>My belief is that the rules for an RPG should facilitate the enjoyment of the game for all concerned. If they get in the way then they are no good. #530</i></div></div><div><p>The lack of rules lead to endless Q&As, and to the publication of more comprehensive rules in AD&D. Later editions added more and more tables and rules, but also unified core mechanics, so it was much simpler to remember them. I think many players and DMs undervalue the insight Gary had about how important pacing is.</p><div><b>Players need to trust the DM - no adversarial DMing </b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div>For immersion to work, the players need to trust the GM that he will not screw them over in his ad-hoc rulings. The GM needs to at least listen once if the players bring forth a good argument why a chance could be much different. Then they need to halt, or the game will derail into arguments killing immersion and flow just as sure as looking up rules. This is why Gary points out the absolute authority of the GM and light rules together.</div><div><br /></div><div><i>The original games of D&D and AD&D were about imagination, choosing an archetype to use as a vehicle for role-playing adventure, innovative play and PC group cooperation. The sole arbiter of such play was the DM, and rules lawyers were anethma #6741</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Play is mainly reliant on rules. I ignored those I write when DMing if the game called for that, and in all added what was logical in terms of the game environment to play. Thus much of adventuring was not "by the book," but rather seat of the pants play by DM and players alike. #85</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><span style="font-style: italic;">If the players aren't lost in known rules they tend to have more fun that way, and the sense of wonder comes back... #892</span></div><div><span style="font-style: italic;"><br /></span></div><div><span><i>I’d like to move back to the days where players didn’t feel like they had to be protected from the whims of the referee. When we went into Greyhawk dungeon, Gary wasn’t the adversary. He was the referee who had set up the scenario. The referee is simply describing the action. The referee is not your opponent. [...] I could run an entire evening’s adventure with nothing but the notebook containing the dungeon, the hit charts, and the saving throw table. If I don’t remember a rule, I wing it </i>[39]</span></div><div><span><div><div style="font-style: italic;"><ul><li>Absolute authority of the DM, rules lawyers given the boot</li><li>Rule books seldom used by a competent DM #7878</li></ul>Do not let the rules get in the way of play; be the arbiter of the game so that the adventure continues on without unnecessary interruptions, and the immersion of the players in the milieu remains complete. Do not make the group face impossible challenges, and keep the rewards as reasonable as possible (that is modest), so that there is always someting more to seek after. #6966</div></div><div style="font-style: italic;"><br /></div><div style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: normal;">There are many tongue in cheek comments, for example the GM "cursing the thoroughness" of the players as a player finds hidden treasure in the OD&D play example, and while I think these were meant in good fun, this is not entirely clear without the nonverbal cues, and may have also mislead novel GMs into an adversarial stance.</span></div><div style="font-style: italic;"><br /></div><div style="font-style: italic;"><div>CAL: Empty out all of the copper pieces and check the trunk for secret drawers or a false bottom, and do the same with the empty one. Also, do there seem to be any old boots or cloaks among the old clothes in the rubbish pile?</div><div>REF: (Cursing the thoroughness of the Caller!) The seemingly empty trunk has a false bottom . . . in it you have found an onyx case with a jeweled necklace therein. The case appears to be worth about 1,000, and the necklace 5,000 Gold Pieces. Amidst the litter the searcher has located a pair of old boots, but there is nothing like a cloak there.</div></div></span></div></div><h3 style="text-align: left;">Other Reasons</h3><div>There are other reasons, why OD&D was simplistic. As AD&D shows, too simplistic for players with more experience who knew the few original rules inside out. Maybe a good approach hence is to provide a very simple core rules set, and then add optional rules that individual GMs and Tables can adopt if they want to increase complexity, like 5e has done with encumberance. (Of course, with house ruling and DM authority, any rule essentially is optional. But it nudges the discussion, if the rule book says so). </div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>Realism</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div>This is the second most important reason for simple elegant rules. Rules are needed or outcomes would be arbitrary. If there are no rules at all, how would you decide who survives a sword fight, and who does not? How would you decide if the thief manages to sneak by unnoticed? Rules, especially simple ones, are helpful as they provide a framework to estimate outcomes and hence allow players to make meaningful decisions. A game without rules may be improv theater, but it is not a role playing game that presents a simulated world with challenges. </div><div><div><br /></div><div>Rules however are always an abstraction and hence can lead to illogical outcomes. For example, in 5e two archers are as likely to hit hit each other when they cannot see each other, as they would in plain sight, because as per the rules, the advantage of being unseen when attacking and the disadvantage of not seeing your target cancel each other. These two rules in isolation are howerver pretty believable. In such cases, to not lose versisimilitude, you need to overrule the book. </div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div>When no manageable amount of rules can do justice to all situations, judgment is required to resolve situations where the rules make no sense or lead to unbelievable outcomes. And if you understand you have to ignore the rules occasionally anyways, why not keep the rules simple, so they are easy to remember? In this case it is not neccesary to have detailed rules or tables for everything, and try to cover every eventuality, combinaton of factors or corner case. </div><div><br /></div><div>Someone must have the authority to decides when and how a rule be overruled, or you get endless discussions of what is realistic or not. This is the DM, who intially called the "Referee". Gary was not only extremely knowledgeable he also was the author of the rules, which gave him great authority. With such a setup from playtests, there was no need for complex or comprehensive rules. </div><div><br /></div><div><i>Play is mainly reliant on rules. I ignored those I write when DMing if the game called for that, and in all added what was logical in terms of the game environment to play. Thus much of adventuring was not "by the book," but rather seat of the pants play by DM and players alike. #85</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>To my mind a rules-light system should be one that sets forth rules and mechanics that are uncomplicated and sufficiently intuitive so that after GMing the system for a dozen or so sessions there is no need to consult the rules save for unusual circumstances. The GM and players alike can manage from past experience. If something unusual comes up that rules do not cover, intuitive ruling based on the overall system should be simple. #8078</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Being old and cranky, I have grown tired of arguing over rules, so I figured that doing a system that had as few rules as possible, just enough to facilitate easy play, and with mechanics that were "forgiving" in that they allow for some and just about any addition alteration without throwing the system out of kilter was the way to go. That way the GM can play the fast and easy way or add whatever else is enjoyable to him and his group without difficulty. #853</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>As for rules, nonsense. The name of the game is roleplaying, not ruleplaying. the Game master is there to handle all the thousands of situations where rules are UNNECESSARY. Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books.</i> <i>What is the first word I used in stating what a GM needed instead of rules? I'll remind you: "Knowledge."</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>When hand-to-hand fighting occurred I usually did that seat-of-the-pants rules--asking what the character was doing and deciding on the chance for success based on the circumstances. #692</i></div><div><br /></div></div><p><b>Origin in Chainmail</b> </p><div>Intitially, OD&D was played essentially with chainmail combat rules. Chainmail was designed for tabletop battles between armies, so rules needed to be simple and resolution quick. The level of detail for combat of modern D&D versions would have made for unbearably slow resolution for dozens of combatants. In OD&D, all character classes had d6 as hit dice, and all weapons dealt d6 damage. There were no skills or feats. There were just 3 classes. Even using d20 to determine hits or misses against armor was even presented as an "Alternative Combat System", the default was Chainmail. </div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>First and foremost, the FRPG is not a combat simulation. It is something entirely different. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Anyway, keep in mind that the OA/D&D systems were never meant to be combat simulators, and all wise DMs ignored the few portions that lead in that direction. Damage and hit points in any game are most probably based on game considerations that have nothing to do with actual human or animal frailties, if you will. A 6" knife will kill a person just as dead as a 6' long two-handed sword, for example.</i> [11]</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Large Play Groups</b></div><div><br /></div><div>In the playtest environment for OD&D there also were often up to <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/great-greyhawk-campaign-intensity-of.html">20 players</a>. Such large groups neither could bear a detailed system, or combat rounds would have taken forever. While combat was a large part of the game and game rules, realistic or detailed simulation of combat was not. </div><div><br /></div><div><i>For about six months the typical number of players in an adventure session in my basement was 18-22 persons packed in. That was when I asked Rob Kuntz to serve as my co-DM. Getting marching order was very important. Of course most activity was dungeon crawling, so actions were just done in order around the table. Be ready or lose your chance! Stick with the party or else something very nasty is likely to befall your character away from the group. The sessions were fun but somewhat chaotic, lacked most roleplay, and surely didn't allow for a lot of one-on-one time player and DM.</i> #2471</div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>Multiple Genres</b></div><div><br /></div><div>The intent for the rules was to support multiple genres. The original campaign adventured a good bit in <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-greyhawk-castle-teeth-of-barkash.html">various sci-fi settings and on modern earth</a>. The more detailed the rules for medieval combat would have been, the less useful for such other environments. The more general, and abstract the rules, the easier you could apply them to laser pistols as well as to swords. </div><div><br /></div><div><i>The rules ommissions in OAD&D were generally done on purpose, so as to not shackle DMs and those writing for the system #522</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div>All of these were grounded in the specific historical evolution or play style of Gary's home campaign. But there are more fundamental benefits of rules light systems, namely that they can be more realistic, and at the same time much more playable than rules heavy ones, at the cost of loss of consistency how a given situation will be handled.</div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-72729777976427328872021-07-28T04:28:00.012-07:002021-08-19T02:46:27.763-07:00World Of Greyhawk<p>This entry contains comments Gary made about the <b>published World of Greyhawk</b>, how it came to be, what the inspirations and backgrounds were, what the plans were would he have remained in charge of it. He himself switched to using that world setting then from the <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-greyhawk-wilderness-map.html">real-world map based</a> one he had used for his home campaign, and set the published <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/garys-modules.html">modules he wrote</a> and tested for his home campaign there, too. The writeup on Wikipedia provides an excellent <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Greyhawk_Fantasy_Game_Setting">overview</a>.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://iimu.kapsi.fi/limunropellukset/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/41.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="585" data-original-width="800" height="468" src="http://iimu.kapsi.fi/limunropellukset/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/41.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><p></p><p><b>Creation of the World of Greyhawk</b></p><div><div><i>When I was asked by TSR to do my World of Greyhawk as a commercial product I was taken aback. I had assumed most DMs would far perfer to use their own world settings. Furthermore, as I was running a game with a large number of players involved, I really didn't want to supply themwith the whole world on a platter. I'll repeat here what has been told before;)</i></div><div><i>I found out the maximum map size TSR could produce, got the go-ahead for two maps of that size, then sat down for a couple of weeks and hand-drew the whole thing. After the maps were done and the features shown were named, I wrote up brief information of the features and states. Much of the information was drawn from my own personal world, but altered to fit the new one depicted on the maps.</i></div><div><i>Whatever came out from TSR regarding the World of Greyhawk up through 1985 was from me, with a bit of material added as filler coming from Frank Mentzer after I approved the work. </i><i> #1649</i></div></div><p><i>When I was asked to create a campaign setting for TSR to market, I did a new and compact "world"--that only in part, of course, as that was all I could fit onto the two maps allowed. So that became the World of Greyhawk. At that point my campaign play gradually moved from the amorphous "real" planet on which Greyhawk was located to the material one published by TSR. Being busy as ever, saving what amounted to duplicate labor was happily accepted. #160</i></p><div><div><div><div><div><i>Brian asked me to create a world setting for the A/D&D game as quickly as I could. I took him at his word. First I found out the maximum size map we could print, then hand-drew the double-sized map that appeared in the World of Greyhawk product.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>That entailed putting in the terrain features and names, names of states, location and names of major population centeres. The naming part was more work than was placing the map features. That took me about two weeks time.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Writing the material for the whole was fairly easy, as I could look at what I had drawn and let my creative imagination have free reign. Of course having been a DM for many years by that time I was well aware of what sort of variety would please the gaming audience.It was also relatively easy to manage, because I purposely left much of the detail for individual DMs to insert, thus making the setting their own.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>As Darlene was working on printable version of the map, I went back and did a bit of further development and polishing to the ms., and that was that. A month of dedicted and constant attention to the project, and finished after about 250 hours work time. Frank Mentzer did some further development, adding his and my later material, for the boxed set version.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I wasn't about to detail a whole bloody world :roll: Besides the amount of effort needed to do that, the time required was not acceptable. TSR wanted a world setting in a month. Thus I asked what the largest map size possible for us to produce was, hand-drew two continent-spanning maps, and while Darlene was converting one to a proper version, I wrote the explanatory material for the other, then did the same for the other map.</i> [35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>As I had other things to do besides the world setting, I devoted myself to the completion of the work so as to be able to return to my other duties...not to mention that it was a project that I was much enthused about designing.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>There was no particular competitive reason for the urgency of the design. There was no particular marketing push planned by TSR for the product once it was completed.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><i>The WoG product as published by TSR came into being about two or three months before the date of its printing and sale. Brian said that a campaign setting was needed, so after ascertaining the maximum size map sheet we could have printed, I free-handed the land outlines on those two sheets of paper, used colored pencils to put in terrain features, located the cities, and made up the names for everything. That took me about 1 week. Then I went to work on the text while Darlene made prettier maps out of what I had done. Two or three weeks after the rough maps were done I turned over the text, as there was a big rush to get the product out.</i> [35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Design Principles</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The World of Greyhawk setting was crafted to allow for individualization by DMs, of course, and so was as non-specific and vague in places where the DM was likely to have created his own material. I did intend to expand the world and do some area specifric modules--mostly at the edges of the Flanaess, but that wasn't to be... #4978</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>The relatively low level of NPCs, and the balance between alignments was done on purpose so as facilitate the use of the world setting by all DMs. With a basically neutral environment, the direction of the individual campaign was squarely in the hands of the DM running it. The Circle of Eight came into the setting when it seemed to me that my PCs were generally too powerful to remain in active play, and they were put into the mix for DMs to use in case they wanted to keep the setting from being dominated by Good or Evil, to a lesser extent Law or Chaos and even true Neutrality. That was done because to my way of thinking dominance by one alignment group tends to restrict the potential for adventuring. #1649</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>In regards to the timeline for the WoG setting, I had no immediate plan for advancing it as the world was meant to be used by all DMs so desirous, each making it conform to his own campaign needs.</i></div><div><i>Any special changes added to the setting in "the future" would have been done in modular form so as to be optional. #7346</i></div></div></div><div><div><i><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" />Decreeing major wars in the Flanaess would have been quite contrary to the design philosophy behind the WoG. It was a template for use by DMs to use in developing their own campaigns based in the milieu. The various alliances and hostilities were set forth, but where they went was meant for each DM to determine as suited his own creative application of the base information. </i><i>That said, I did indeed find the concept of FtA quite inappropriate #7745</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Age of great Sorrow was meant to be the time of the migrating tribes into the Flanaess, as the Oeridians destroyed the older culture and society. I believe I meant the Turmoil Between Crowns to be the time when the Great Kingdom arose. As you likely suspected, those were hooks left for further development...that never got developed.</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Inspiration for the World of Greyhawk</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Of course a good deal of my wargaming experience, knowledge of history and geography and use of such in other projects came into play in creating the map and the states on it.</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Inspiration came from much rading, map making, writing of historical and game materials, and the necessity of producing something that would be lots of fun for everyone. Imagination and creative thought then took over...</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Switching to the published Version</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Of course as my campaign world was active, had many players, I did not wish to detail it, so I created Aerth, the continent of Oerick, and all that went with it for general use by other DMs. I found I liked it so well that I switched my group's play to the World of Greyhawk soon after I had finished the maps and manuscript. #5479</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When I did the map for the World of Greyhawk product I made up 90% of the material on the spot...and liked it better than what I had been doing so switched my own campaign to the newly created world of Oerth. Only the places surrounding the City of Greyhawk came from my original campaign setting. #8253</i></div></div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When I switched to Oerik as the main continent, most of the putdoor adventuring took place to the east and up north around the big lakes. A couple of years back a group from Tennessee visited, and I designed an adventure for them that would indeed take them from Greyhawk all the way west of Zeif, looking for a haunted city there. After eight hours they'd not made it much further that Rel Mord, so that was the end of the adventure. Pity... #3218</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>Gazetteer</b></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i><b>Flanaess</b>: "Flan-AeCE," the stressed syllable almost sounding "ace," the "Ae" like "Ay" perhaps. #1439</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i><b>Nyr Dyv</b>: "Nir Div," with a punning "Near Dive" when PCs were about to be immersed.</i></div><div><br /></div><div><div></div></div><div><i>The <b>Egg of Coot</b> is a creation of Dave Arneson's. He has stated that it was drawn from the name of Gregg Scott, a chap who disdained fantasy as "unmanly"--as opposed to the micro-scale armored fighting vehicles he manufactured and purveyed.</i><i> #3316</i></div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>The <b>Blackmoor</b> on the Oerick maps is certainly not the same as Dave Arneson's campaign setting. I liked its ring, so put it onto the map as I was making up names for the various states.</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i><b>Furyondy</b> is sort of an idealized medieval Great Britain with the Norman influence. </i>[35]</div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i><b>The Yeomanry</b> is the idealized English countryside, including the Lowlands of Scotland. </i>[35]</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i><b>Perrenland</b> is based on the Swiss Confederation where both my father and Jeff Perren's were born </i>[35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i><b>South Province</b> would be Austria, Hungary, or Bulgaria. </i>[GenCon 1998 seminar]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Think of the <b>Great Kingdom</b> as en empire, <b>Aerdi</b> as the core. It is the Great Kingdom because it rules all the other parts outside of Aerdi, just as Great Britain was and is more than England. </i>[35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>Aerdi has Gothic architecture, BTW, while the Great Kingdom has Byzantine... </i>[35]</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>As the one that conceptualized the character of Ivid V, Overking, I assure you he is demented, malign, and thoroughly evil. Think of the Emperor John Ominer in The Broken Lands by Fred Saberhagen, and then make the mental image more vile and scheming.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><span style="font-style: italic;">With the sad news of Fred Saberhagen's passing fresh in my mind, I must say that the Great Kingdom I pictured as akin to John Ominer's Empire of the East. #7762</span></div></div><div><span style="font-style: italic;"><br /></span></div><div><i>[<b>Duchy of Tenh</b>] As I never was privy to any campaign material that was created by Dave, I simply used a name similar to that which had been mentioned by him. #1672</i></div></div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><div><i>I had the <b>Sulhaut Mountains</b> as the "Lost world" setting in my compaign, although we never did much of anything there as events kept the PCs bust elsewhere. (I wanted to do something fun with the 'Rift as well, but never got there. </i><i>#3941</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>As I wrote it <b>Rel Astra</b> is the capital city of the See of Medigia--named for a wargame opponent of mine, BTW, than no one has ever asked about or picked up on, Mike Magida. Perhaps I made the error, or more likely a busy editor inserted the "free city" tab for Rel Astra. One can live with a free city as a capital, of course. London was a free city and the capital of England.</i> [35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>The spell-worker ruling the <b>Valley of the Mage</b> was envisioned by me as a demi-urge in retirement rather akin to Tom Bombadil.</i> #8299</div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Rift Canyon </b><i>I alweays envisioned the Roftcanyon as a twilight place full of dangers reminiscent of REH's "Red Nails" short story...plus caves and caverns. There are many ledges and caves along the way down, and one is fortuitous indeed to reach the perils that await at the bottom </i>[<a href="https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/piedpiperpublishing/riftcanyon-t2247.html">27</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><div>[<b>Nerof Gaskal</b>] <i>It is just a name I made up, one that seemed suitable for the persona it identified. Actually, it was inspired by the name of a chap that ran a local butcher shop here in Lake Geneva, Frank Gascal. I suppose that I am attempting to emulate Jack Vance in regards character names.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Peoples</b></div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The <b>Flan</b> were not meant to be anything like the American Indians. they were of Hamatic-like racial origin, Negroes if you will. Little is known of them because they were generally absorbed into the waves of other peoples immigrating eastwards through the continent, so their culture was generally lost. #2800</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><div><i>You are correct in regards the <b>Paynims</b>, they being much like the Tiger and Wolf Nomads. All three do have some medium cavalry. The Paynims do not have the long-distance signalling, but have ambush skill. [35]</i></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p><b>Additional Continents </b></p><div><i>The exact form of the remainder of the globe was not settled upon. I wanted an Atlantis-like continent, and possibly a Lemirian-type one. Likely two large continents would have been added. The nearest would house cultures akin to the Indian, Burmese, Indonesian, Chinese, Tibetan, and Japanese. Another would likely have been the location of African-type cultures, including the Egyptian. A Lemurian culture would have been based off the Central and South American cultures of the Aztec-Mayay-Inca sort.#1094</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Yes indeed, Frank spoke truth. As I have said before I did intend to expand the WoG setting to cover the complete planet. In that regard Len Lakofka, Francois Marcela Froideval, and Frank Mentzer were all to be involved in the shape of the added continents and islands.</i> <i>#1992</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>I had a sketch map of the remainder of the globe, to the east, west, north and south of Oerik. I had planned to have Len Lakofka and Francois Marcela Froideval do parts of the entire world, but that was coming after 1985. </i><i>So as far as things now stand, there is no remainder of the WoG beyond the original two maps I did. #3699</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Len Lakofka had an eastern continental addition as well as the Lendore Isles, so what Iplanned to so was incorporate Francois' and Len's maps with Oerik, complete the lower continent below it, and have a real globe #2819</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>[Chronicles of the Black Moon] Yes, and yes. His area of Oerth was located to the west, and it included the island of Mephreton.</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>The would would be a complete globe with more continents and states thereon with contributions from Len Lakofka and Francois Marcela-Froideval. </i><i>#1082</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Pantheon</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Only after I had completed the last of the core rules books for AD&D was there time for me to address growing audience interest in the World of Greyhawk and its deities. When the version of that setting was ready for publication, the need for a more detailed pantheon of deities was apparent, so that's when the details were set down. That made Len Lakofka happy too, for I brought in the deities he had been using for his campaign #2732</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><div><i>Pantheons of deities are the usual in authored fantasy, and they suit a role-playing game in that genre well. That is why I adopted the concept so as to have a reason for and empower the clerics in the game.</i></div><div><i>The World of Greyhawk deities came directly from my creative imaginings, or those of a few others such as Len Lakofka and Roger Moore. #5580</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i><b>Boccob</b> is a deity, and archmagi are basically mortals or demi-deities. </i>[35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i><b>Erythnul</b> was conceived of a bloody, Nerull as dark and against life. #1762</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i></i><div><i><div>Erythnul was my conception, and it was inspired by need in the pantheon being created, and the "Demon of Blood & Seed" from Hindu mythology provided the conceptual basis for one of his capabilities.</div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>Kelanan, the Sword Lord</b>, was something I made up out of whole cloth. I do have a fighter PC that kept finding magic swords, totes a number of them around, so there was some inspiration involved from there--he needed a deity [35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div>I created the name "<b>Lolth</b>" as a name that seemed "right" for a spider-like demoness. I was not thinking of the mythical Lilith when I made up that name.[35]</div></div></i></div></div><div><i><div><br /></div><div><b>Wastri</b>, ah, a favorite of mine. His original appearance was in an early, never fully published (rightfully so) novel called THE GNOME CACHE. In withdrawing to the marshes to live a life of contemplation, Wastri found only that he loves batrachians, that hunting small demi-humans with giant toads was amusing sport, and the only enlightment he received was from the first used to roast prey taken. Perhaps it was a comment on extreme conceits of religious sort.... #341</div><div><br /></div><div><div>The giant toads are the steeds of the followers of Wastri, the Hopping Prophet, certainly of Oerth and the pantheon of the Flanaess. #5351</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>As for Bit T, well, I decided a really nasty and wholly evil deity was needed, so I created <b>Tharizdun</b> from whole cloth. When I wrote the FToT I had that in mind, and from there I developed him into what I hope is a truly dispicable entity. #383</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div></i></div><div><div><i>No, the <b>Elder Elemental God</b> I envisaged as an entity of vaguely Chronos-like sort, a deity of great power but of chaotic sort, and not always highly clever in thought and action. Big T on the other hand is the epitome of pure, reasoning and scheming evil. / Eclavrdra, being more of the mold of Tharizdun, would prefer to have as "master" a powerful deity she might hope to influence, thus the EEG. #683</i></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>Len deserves the lion's share of the credit, and blame if any, for the Suel deities. I simply did a bit of editing of his work. #8733</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Actually many of the Suel, <b>Wee Jas</b> included, were the creation of Len Lakofka #5411</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>As the deity under consideration here was an invention of Len Lakofka, I can't speak to the source for his creative thinking or to the matter of how her name is pronounced...other than to note that Len said "Wee-Jaz," with a slight stress on the first syllable. #1970</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><i><b>Olidammara</b> is a creation of my own that Len added to his pantheon. #8741</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>Actually, I can vaguely remember what I envisioned for said deity, <b>Dorgha Torgu</b>. He was based on the Mongolian, so picture a Ghengis Khan-like warrior with a head similarone of the Chinese "General" deities--oni-like, dark blue or bright red, with bulging eyes and protruding tusks and fangs. Garments like those worn by the Mongol leaders, weapons also.</i> [35]</div><div><div><br /></div><div><i>I did the quasi-deities late in the game, so to speak, so only minimal use of them was made by me in the campaign. As the higest level PCs were then in the Evil alignment, they were not at all interested in seeking our such quasi-deities...and getting their butts kicked.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><b>Further Plans had Gary remained in charge of TSR</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Had I remained in creative control of the D&D game line at TSR one of the projects I planned was the complete development of of the Oerth world setting, and production of source modules for the various states and outstanding features of the Flanaess--such as the Rift Canyon, the Sea of Dust, etc. #6511</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>There would be several WoG sourcebooks detailing places such as the Great Kingdom, the "Barbarians (Frost, ice, Snow)," etc.</i></div><div><i>A major module would be done regarding the area around the <b>Rift</b> and the place proper. Another dealing with the <b>Sea of Dust</b> would be done. Possibly adventures regarding the <b>Scarlet Brotherhood</b> and the <b>Horned Society</b> would be available. Likely a couple of more from Len and Francois would be in the line.</i></div><div><i>There would be some "portal accessed" adventures, these likely found in a series of modules detailing more of the <b>Underdark and the Sunless Sea</b>. The portals would lead to non-fantasy-genre settings.</i></div><div><i>In all, for every question answered regarding the world, at least one new one would be created and left unanswered, for my purpose was to have a world that the DM could complete and customize as suited his group.</i></div><div><i>In all likelihood <b>Castle Greyhawk</b> and the <b>City of Greyhawk</b> would be available products.</i></div><div><i>That's it off the top of my head--first time I've actually gone to such detail in considering what I would likely have done. </i><i>#1082</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div>Interestingly, the City of Greyhawk was published as a boxed set by TSR, not the <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-greyhawk-city.html">real city</a>, of course, with a nice map, and I bought it, but found it pretty unplayable. A lot of background info, but no outlines of adventures or intrigutes that players could be sucked into.</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Yes, when I devised the Scarlet Brotherhood I based the concept on an organization of monks who were augmented by assassins and clerics, with a large number of fighters around, of course.</i></div><div><i>Most of the play in my campaign was around the Nyr Dyv and westwards. Thus the Brotherhood's machinations were not central to the action. I was planning to do a module to two featuring them, but that didn't happen, so I have no detailed plots regarding them and their conspiricies. As with many places on the continent of Oerik, they were there for use as needed, a tool for the DM #1433</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>While I am much impressed with the Australian Aboriginies, and also with the Bushmen of Africa, I never contemplated adding them to the mix simply because their cultures are so far from those used as bases for the milieux of Oerth adventuring. The amount of work necessary to establish the groundwork for play therein would be rather daunting, both for the author and the DM utilizing the material. It would be a simpler matter to manage it for the LA game system, but for D&D I can foresee all manner of lengthy additions to the rules being necessary. BTW, by D&D, I am speaking broadly, and mean AD&D as well. #1131</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Stoink, "The Wasps' Nest" as it were. The whole place was designed for feloneous activity, double-dealing, and thuggery. It saddened me a lot to have to forget further development, as was the case with Shadowland and a couple of areas of the Flanaess I had hoped to set adventure modules in--the Rift, Scarlet Brotherhood, and the jungles of Hepmonoland in particular. #4754</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Shadowland was a module that Skip williams and I were in process of writing when the trouble came and I left TSR. I suggested thereafter that we complete the work, but Skip demurred. No more need be said... #4355</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>An agathocacological plane of insubstantial stuff has always fascinated me since I began contemplating additional realms. So the shadows from A. Merritt's Creep Shadow, Creep novel were included in the AD&D game, and new and similar monsters added to the projected plane betweem light and darkness. Skip Williams was going to co-author a long adventure module and sourcebook for the place, but he decided to remain a loyal employee of Lorraine Williams instead. I have my notes, but his are amongst them, so doing such a work now is pretty much unlikely. #8264</i></div><p></p></div><div><div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div></div></div><div></div></div><p><i></i></p>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-3512096399327203722021-07-25T01:51:00.008-07:002021-08-17T23:13:48.484-07:00Managing Play Group Dynamics<p>This blog has endless pages on the more technical aspects of role playing games. But role playing games are played by people -- often slightly nerdy, sometimes socially awkward or immature people. There will be differences in opinion and interpersonal issues you will need to sort out to ensure a good experience for all involved, or the group will fall apart, and the game will end.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.dungeonsolvers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/dnd_argument.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="505" data-original-width="800" height="404" src="https://www.dungeonsolvers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/dnd_argument.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><p>The <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/04/the-angry-gm.html">Angry DM</a> has a lot of good and practical advise on this. Here is some by Gygax:</p><div><div><i>As the principal reason to play a game is entertainment, whatever best provides that for the group engaged in play of the game is what is best for those concerned. What more can be said in that regard?</i></div><div><i>It needs be noted that the GM is a part of the group and needs to be equally amused and entertained, perhaps a bit more than any other single person therein because of his efforts on behalf of the players. #4329</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The DM is there to provide entertainment to the players.You are surely a very consciencious DM, maybe too much so. First, you are at least as important as any other participant, so you must have fun too, or something is wring. If you aren't always having fun, likely someone, or several someones, in the group is causing a problem. Weed out such person or persons, and you and the remainder of the players will likely find the game sessions are uniformly enjoyable. #4951</i></div><p><i>The DM is omnipotent. You might try to plead your case, especially one of rule interpretation and altering action because of the difference, but if he doesn't want to listen, you loose, Buckwheat! Zip your lip and accept with stoic grace. </i><i>Should this spoil your gaming enjoyment, thell your DM exactly what is bothering you. If an accommodation can be reached, fine. If not, leave the group and find a DM that is more acceptable to your concept of how one should be. In such case I am sure the DM won't miss you nor you him #7893</i></p><div><div><i>I have given the PCs damage for players arguing with me or disrtupting the game.[35]</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>When a player or players became obstreperous I simply rolled a d6 and informed the miscreants that their PCs had suffered that much damage. Unless they wanted more of the same, all misconduct had to cease. I did roll several d6 damage for a couple of very unruly and rebellious young players. When asked why their characters were taking such damage, I said beacuse they had offended the rest of the group, me in particular, and if they wished to play further they had better note the damage, be silent, and mind their manners.</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-10114669434676022372021-07-24T11:18:00.014-07:002022-03-10T09:00:04.350-08:00Castle Zagyg<p>This is the only version of Greyhawk Castle authored by Gary Gygax that was partially published.</p><p>He had had plans to publish a dungeon that captured the essential elements of the various incarnations of Greyhawk Castle, and as he was public on blogs at the time, he shared some of those plans for what he had in mind. The project took longer than expected, Rob Kuntz dropped out and, sadly, Gary died before he could get it done. It is almost as if there was a curse on it. </p><div>I do not understand why he spent years first detailing a small town as a base of operations, when in his own campaign, Greyhawk City only came into ephemeral being after several levels of play in the dungeon. We might well have more levels had he not done that. </div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://html.pdfcookie.com/02/2019/12/26/o2npd7gk43v4/bg5.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="524" data-original-width="800" height="419" src="https://html.pdfcookie.com/02/2019/12/26/o2npd7gk43v4/bg5.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>Embedding The Last Castle in the Milieu</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>The castle and dungeons are separate and "pure", will not be missed when using the campaign setting or require the campaign setting to be used, all the while forming a natural part of the entire Castle Zagyg work. </i>#4414</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>In order to get to the castle and ruins I thought it best to establish a detailed environment and good-sized community for the setting. Thus Castle Zagyg Yggsburgh and the East Mark. Of course, detailing the big walled town by dividing it into quarters or districts, mapping each and showing the buildings with encounter key numbers and text, giving a bit of color for the sector to assist the GM--and doing the same for the suburban communities--then seemed beneficial in order to give a really detailed urban area. To the best of my knowledge that has not been done previously.</i><i> #8744</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>So as those 24 modules were in progress the similar detailing of the actual abandoned castle ruins and its subterranean levels went into high gear, basing the work on my previous castle ruins and dungeons developed and revised as my campaign matured...and PCs wreaked havoc in these places #8744</i></div><div><p><i>Yggsburgh and its environs are well detailed, but they are sufficiently generic to enable the GM to put them into almost any campaign setting. the area is not specific to any world setting, even that of Greyhawk. </i>[11]</p></div></div><div><i>Yggsburgh is a town, not meant to be anything like the Free City of Greyhawk. It is smaller and not near any huge lake #4529</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>The smaller scale of the Yggsburgh project is to facilitate the presentation of the ruins of Castle Zagyg and its many dungeon levels. As it is likely that there will be a good deal of adventuring activity in the town and surrounding countryside, the urban area has been extensively detailed, while the less-developed land around it has been well-described and provided with additional adventure hooks as befits such a setting. #8279</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>To make a long explanation short, the introductory portion of the module covers that, placing Yggsburgh on the River Nemo running some miles distant to a major city named Dunfalcon that is on the shore of a large lake...</i><i> #2416</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Literaly translated, dun = gray and a falcon is a type of hawk... #4902</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>"This module is large in content but the area of land it covers is relatively small, a bit less than 1,500 square miles, an area of some 44 miles east and west, 34 north and south. With some inclusion of areas “off the map,” that size is sufficient for much adventuring but should be small enough, at most perhaps 3,000 or so square miles if all the border areas described in the adventure text are included, to fit into the campaign world, whatever one is used by the Game Master. The area is likewise suitable to serve as the core for building a complete new campaign world around it should that be desired, a major undertaking to be sure, and not a subject for further discussion here." #2416</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The River Nemo could be considered as the Neen, and the Urt river likewise one seen on the World of Greyhawk map. there is also the City of Dunfalcon some miles west to Yggsburgh.</i></div><div><i>The area covered by the Yggsburgh work is up to about 3K square miles if the GM expands the map himself so as to take in the demesnes of the three hostile nobles and the borderlands. That is a miniscule area considering the Flanaess, and yet within it there are hundreds of adventures--given and postulated. The cultural and social information in the work are manifold, meat and drink for the GM inclined to develop detailed material for the campaign. #4488</i></div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Rob is working on the second part now, a dungeon-like area that introduces the Mad Archmage before he attained deital prowess. </i><i> #2064 </i></div><div><br /></div><div>This has been published as Dark Chateau, but has little to do with Greyhawk Castle. </div><div><br /></div></div><p><b>A Huge Undertaking </b></p><div><i>It is, as you suppose, a very major undertaking, the restatement of some 50 or so upper castle and dungeon levels into a module usable by other GMs, with clear and easily read links between levels, fully detailed encounters, instructions as to how some of the "mysteries" of the material can be managed according to the desires of the individual GM. #4414</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>There are four man-years of work needed to complete the castle levels and dungeons. If we begin work soon, the first part should be ready in a year, with more coming in the way of additional modules every three months thereafter for about two and a half years. I am not sure when i will be able to commence that work, though, and as I must have the lead, that means Rob can't do anything until I feed him the basic material. </i>[11] </div><div><br /></div><div>He vastly underestimated how long it would take him. Six years or so later he had not progressed further than the first level. </div><div><br /></div><div><i>A module containing many dungeon levels is perforce huge, a very lengthy and demanding project is properly planned out. The only time I have done a mega-dundeon was for my gaming group. Of course a version of that work in now underway, and it includes the upper castle works as well as many subterranean levels. </i>[11]</div><div><div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The whole of the combined material Rob and I put together would be far too large for publication, 50 levels or so. What I have done is gone back to my original design of more modest scope, because I doubt the work will need to accommodate groups of 20 PCs delving on a daily basis. </i><i> #1628</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><p><b>The Castle Was Only Written Up in Sketchy Notes, Most of It Was Improvised</b></p><div><i>As Rob learned from me, he too DMed by the proverbial seat of the pants method. A single line of notes for an encounter was sufficient for either of us to detail a lengthy description, action, dialog, tricks or traps, and all the rest. As this is not the stuff of modules, we will have to do the same thing as we go over each encounter on the map, actually recording our otherwise extemporized details for the reader. </i><i>#1628</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>This will be a lot of work, as we both used very sketchy encounter notes, a single line was typical, for "winging' was the favored approach to all adventures. #1643</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>That means a lot more text and explanation, for I winged encounters, and as Rob learned from me, so did he. </i><i> </i><i> #1995</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Rob and I both DMed on the fly, made only short and often cryptic notes, and thought very much alike, so handing the "castle" back and forth as co-DMs was never a problem. The old material would be basically unusable my most others, of course, encounter notes consisting of only one line from which we created reams of information out of whole cloth on the spot; #4414</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Now you understand why the Castle Zagyg project is such a major design undertaking. If we handed over the binders containing the maps and the notes don't think even the ablest of DMs would feel empowered to direct adventures using the materials...unless that worthy was someone who had spent many hours playing with Rob and me as DM. </i><i> #4660</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>The Castle Was Changed By Play and Reconstructions</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>To be frank, the castle changed over the years, so "original" is moot. As levels were added by me, new and different things were introduced. When after a couple of year's of time Rob became my co-DM there was a massive alteration in the upper works of the castle, a whole, massive new 1st level was created, and then the level plan for the expanded lower levels of the dungeon was created anew, with the original levels of my making incorperated with those of Rob's dungeons, plus a number of new ones we created to fill the whole scheme. </i><i>#1628</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The maps will have to be re-drawn from originals. The latter were altered as we merged dungeons, and as PCs interacted with the complex. At one time Robilar, Tenser, and Terik converted the first level of the dungeons to their base. </i><i>In short the original upper and lower parts of Castle Greyhawk changed many times over the years they were in active use. </i><i> #1628</i></div></div><div><i><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" />Additionally, as that complex was explored and exploited, we created new levels and changed things. In all, the original work was one that was in progress, continually in flux of change. </i><i> #1995</i></div><div><br /></div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><b>The New Work Will Be a BEST OF in the Spirit of the Old Castles</b></div></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><div><i>The most interesting and demanding features of levels will be retained. </i><i> #1628</i></div></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><div><div><i>What we will do is to take the best of the lot and put that into a detailed format usable by anyone, no "winging-it' required. Note that it is "Zagyg's Castle", so no tedious explanations of how the denizens of the place got there will be needed. #1628</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Again, what our challenge is going to be is to cull the extraneous, take the best, and re-create the details we made up on the spot. Of course the most famous things will be there, along with most of the best parts that are not well-known through story and word of mouth. </i><i> #1628</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>The salient features of the original dungeons will be retained, of course. If the work proves to be sufficiently popular we can always supplement the base with add-ons too, just as we did with the campaign material through opening new split and side levels, placing transporters into dungeon areas to move PCs to separate adventure areas akin to those published as separate modules--DUNGEONLAND, LAND BEYOND THE MAGIC MIRROR, and ISLE OF THE APE. #1643</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>The major features from the original levels he and I designed will be included in the re-design of the castle, just as my original work was incorporated into the huge new dungeon complex Rob and I created by combining our respective castles. </i><i> #1995</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>We will do our best to make the printed version not only true to the spirit of the underlying material, but also accommodating for GMs who wish to have "living" dungeons. </i><i> </i><i> #1995</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Our mission is to keep the number of levels presented to a reasonable quantity while covering all the major places and features of the original models. #2064</i></div></div><div><i><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" />Of course into the new maps will go the most interesting and remarkable features of the original dungeons Rob and I did separately or jointly. </i><i>#3249 </i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>So we need to do a lot of re-working and explanatory material even as we reduce the sprawling levels into a more managable and publishable form. As we do that we will most assuredly retrain all of the best material--map ideas, encounters, oddities, and so forth within the revised level plans. #4414</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Meantime, I am collecting all the most salient feature, encounters, tricks, traps, etc. for inclusion on the various levels. </i><i>So the end result will be what is essentially the best of our old work in a coherent presentation usable by all DMs, the material having all the known and yet to be discussed features of the original work that are outstanding..I hope #4660</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>None of the traps were such that clever play could avoid their worst effects. I'll say nothing more, as Rob and I are working on updated dungeon levels now that are based off of those original ones you mention above. The whole will not consist of as many levels as we had, but there will be plenty</i> [11]</div><div> </div><div>I think this last one is meant to say the opposite: that clever play could NOT avoid worst effects, which would be in line with Garys believe that clever play should be rewarded.</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>The Final Castle Would have Been Similar to the Old Castle, Smaller than the Merged Castle</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Of course, the expanded work's multiple levels will have to be cut back. Having six second level maps is not only impossible for a published work but quite unnecessary for a normal campaign.</i></div><div><i>Remember, when Castle Greyhawk was in its heyday, groups of 10 or more PCs would adventure in it several times a week, many of the players in each group different from the previous ones. #1628</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>In short, we'll cut the size back to something in the range of 20 levels, a bit larger than my original work but a lot smaller than the combined material Rob and I used to entertain player groups of 10-20 persons several times a week. </i><i>#1643</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Quantifyng will eat up much time and space, not to mention the re-drafting of old level maps to fit the new configuration we have outlined. </i><i>#1643</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>We will use my original scheme of the dungeons, altering them as need be for coherant presentation to a general audience of GMs. </i><i> #1995</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>The original material for the castle and dungeon levels beneath it will be revised and detailed using the old maps and encounter notes. That is the most difficult part of the prohect, as we will have to work from my model of 13 levels, that expanded to about 20 by me, then to over 40 when Rob joined forces with me as co-DM. #2064</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>There will be "side levels" that are difficult to find too. #3249 </i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>I have laid out a new schematic of castle and dungeon levels based on both my original design of 13 levels plus sideadjuncts, and the "New Greyhawk Castle" that resulted when Rob and I combined our efforts and added a lot of new level too. From that Rob will draft the level plans for the newest version of the work.</i><i> #4660</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>Plan of the layout</b></div><div><br /></div><div>from <a href="https://grodog.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-many-levels-of-castle-greyhawk-part-2.html">mail by Gary forwarded</a> by Steve Chenault</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i><div>Part III Upper Works - Castle Ruins</div><div>Part IV Beneath the Ground (first three levels)</div><div><i>Part V The Laboratories, Menagier, Museum (five levels)</i></div><div><i>Part VI The Deeps (six levels)</i></div><div>Part VII The Caverns - grotto, maze (six levels)</div><div>Part VIII Zagig's Way - Lightless Lake, Inferno (three levels)</div><div><ul style="text-align: left;"><li>Storerooms</li><li>Cellars</li><li>Dungeon</li><ul><li>Arena</li></ul><li><i>Laboratories</i></li><li><i>Menagerie</i></li><li><i>Museum </i></li><ul><li>Catacombs</li><li>Upper Crypts - access Lower Crypts</li></ul><li>Lairs </li><ul><li>Lower Crypts </li></ul><li>Labyrinth </li><ul><li>Warrens - access from the Labyrinth, accessing the Lower Crypts above, the Vaults below</li></ul><li>Endless Rooms </li><ul><li>Grand Mausoleum - no entry to the Vaults</li><li>Vaults - no entry to either Endless Rooms or Mausoleum</li></ul><li>Maze</li><li>Grottos (small caves) </li><ul><li>Pools of Chaos*, normal connections Burrows and Caverns, transporter pools to various other dungeon level locations on a one-way basis.</li></ul><li>Caves </li><ul><li>Burrows - connecting to the level below, and Caverns</li></ul><li>Caverns</li><li>Lightless Lake</li><li>Little Inferno</li><li>Zagyg's Zone (or some such name).</li></ul></div></i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>The Floor Plans Would have been Made New</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>The plan is to create entirely new maps, so none of the areas in the castle and dungeons will ever have been previously explored. </i><i>#3249 </i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Of course there won't be transporter gates to existing modules, but we will probably have them with suggested destinations. #4516</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div>The Storerooms, level 1 of the dungeon, seem to be embedded in a new "mouths of madness" and upper works setting, but they seem to match very closely the map of the old first level of the expanded dungeon, matching descriptions on many points, and matching an older map. So I think, alternations and adjustments to the maps would have been minor.</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Mysteries Would Have Remained Mysteries</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Finally, we will not give all away. Where there are great mysteries involved, such as the Great Stone Face and the Disappearing Jeweled Man, we plan to offer the GMs several possible answers :D Overall, the PCs adventuring in the dungeons will encounter the same challenges as faced the original delvers in 1972 and onwards, that Robilar discovered and Mordenkainen met. #1995</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><b>Rob Dropping Out </b></div></div><div><div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>As Rob adventured a lot in my original castle, I in his, and we also co-DMed groups, we knew each others style, and what the castle should "feel" like, what the mysterious areas were all about, etc.</i></div><div><i>Working without him means I have to a great deal additional explanatory material for the growing list of special encounters I have on hand, expend a lot of time communication with another writer or team of same, carefully content edit each piece of the project. #6182</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>As a matter of fact, Rob Kuntz and I have parted company since he reneged on his agreement to co-develop the Castle Zagyg campaign project material, doing so in a most ungentlemanly manner. I was taken aback at that since he originally approached me to do the work and then agreed to terms set forth in a written agreement, accepted an advance payment. All I can assume is that he is going through some rough personal times. </i>[<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Large parts of the text actually written by Stephen Chenault of Troll Lord Games</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>When I was developing Castle Zagyg for Gary, I was unabashed in my efforts to include CAS elements to the whole, including Tsathoggua-like gargoyles in the ruins in front of the castle; also, in "The Storerooms" a certain sorcerer who sequestered himself behind a series of illusions, and if the illusions were overcome (I'm looking at you, Ro(a)bilar!"), the sorcerer would place a geas on the intruders, directing them to confront the hill giant of the Storerooms (which could be an insurmountable task for low level PCs); and lastly (to my recollection), in the basement of the castle proper their was a summoning chamber carved of yellow ivory. Well, these are the CAS elements that immediately spring to mind, and Gary was not opposed to any of these, though I think he may have passed (i.e. post March 2008) before I developed the yellow ivory summoning chamber. Anyway, he may not have been as big a CAS fan as Rob is, but he certainly did not dislike him. </i>[42.5, CAS = Clark Ashton Smith, RJK's favourite fantasy author]</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-30509229582775720012021-07-24T10:10:00.018-07:002021-08-17T23:08:42.130-07:00Great Greyhawk Campaign: Playtest Modules<p>After the original adventures in <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk_14.html">Castle Greyhawk</a> and the <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-greyhawk-wilderness-map.html">wilderness</a>, when the <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/world-of-greyhawk.html">World of Greyhawk</a> had been published, play moved on to be mostly playtesting of modules for publication, from Village of Hommlet, to Temple of Elemental Evil, Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, Against the Giants, to Into the Depths of the Earth, as described separately. The campaign never finished, with Gary being booted out of TSR and losing the rights to the world he had created. </p><p>He also published the "tournament modules" Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and Tomb of Horrors -- at least the latter was also adventured in by his group.</p><div><i>The old AD&D modules are best played with the system for which they were intended. Having some skill usage and abilities outside of the PC classes will broaden the scope for the DM and the players alike. [35]</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>I would put in an module's location wherever it suited the campaign at the time...mainly near where the PC party was. </i>[35]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Of course the ones with which I am really familiar are those I wrote or co-designed. Of those, the ones I most enjoyed DMing were G1-3. D1-3, S3, and T1 and Temple of Elemental Evil...although I must say that running The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, Dungeonland, anf Isle of the Ape were fun for me if not uniformly enjoyed by the players :eek: All the others fall into a second place, including the ToH :lol: #6104</i></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>In modules I authored I created and named the characters for player use. This was done without reference to any existing PCs. Actually, I made the characters as if I would want to play them personally, then stuck them with rather questionable names for the sheer delight of being able to do that. I suspect it was a case of over-reaction to seeing so many really purile and stupid PCs names over the years...and I include my own PC fighter Yrag in that lot</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>D&D Basic Set Exampel Dungeon (Tower of Zenopus)</b></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>J. Eric Holmes did design the sample dungeon in the first D&D Basic Set. </i>[35]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The Tower' [of Zenopus] was Eric's...possibly with input from his son who was a young teenager back then.</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div>Find all the detail about Gary's edits to the original manuscript at <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/04/the-adorable-zenopus-archives.html">Zenopus Archives</a>. </div></div><p><b>B2 Keep on the Borderlands</b></p><p>I believe this is the only one that was not adventured in by his original group. </p><div><i>Many DMs contactd TSR stating that their adventure material was lacking, asking that we publish modules that they could use. If course we had to have a beginner's module for the D&D Basic Set...</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>The B2 module was written to introduce newbies to the wonders of D&D adventuring. It is not "ecologically correct," but it is fun and entertaining, packed full of new and different challenges. Just between you and me, it makes as much sense as most things in the D&D game such as massive flying dragons that breathe various deadly things. Those who swallow the camel of the entire concept, then strain at gnats of particular monster or situation seem to be be losing much of the basis for playing. However, that sort of thing happens as one becomes familiar with the fanciful and begin to qualify the experience by comparison to reality. As you note, modules for more experienced players have more rationalization for setting and encounters.</i></div><div><i>The short answer is, if you enjoy DMing the KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS, then why not use it? If the players question anything, make up something on the spot to answer the challenge #1671</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div>[B modules other than B1, B2] <i>To be blunt, most of those places never existed in my campaign world :wink: There was no need for them as I had no problem creating new adventure material for those that played in my campaign.</i> [35]</div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>DMG Example Dungeon </b></div><div><b><i><br /></i></b></div><div><i>The example you note was created especially for the DMG and was not a part of the GH campaign. Wherever possible I kept the two separate so as to have the large group playing in the campaign getting new material. #1996</i></div><div><br /></div><div>I believe the story here is more complicated. There is some <a href="http://unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/02/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-4-cult-of-fiery.html">fantastic sleuth-work</a> that shows suprising similarities between the DMG Dungeon and the Moathouse Dungeon. Likely the original Moathouse dungeon was the progenitor for both the published version and for this map.</div><p><b>Village of Hommlet, Temple of Elemental Evil, Stoink and the freeing of Zuggtmoy</b></p><div><div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://db4sgowjqfwig.cloudfront.net/assets/255042/hommlet.png?1383241498" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="616" data-original-width="800" height="493" src="https://db4sgowjqfwig.cloudfront.net/assets/255042/hommlet.png?1383241498" width="640" /></a></div><br />I have DMed for so many people that after so much time has passed since running adventures in the Villiags' and environs, I'm quite unable to recall the many details of those events. I do not usually make noted of gaming sessions, save for correcting the working draft of the scenario of when doing campaign reports--that I have little time for or inclination to labor over. </i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">35</a>]</div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The village and main temple areas were carefully mapped before I began adventure sessions in the area. The random generation was used mainly in developing the land around the village and some of the side areas surrounding the main rooms I had done for the temple dungeons.</i></div><div><i>As a side note, the random tables worked quite well, but they took too long. I found that it was easier and quicker for me to just bash ahead as usual and put in whatever I liked at the moment.</i> #1793</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>I play-tested the VoH, ToEE, and the unpublished, lost Bandit City of Stoink with a large group of players including my Son Luke and Skip Williams. It was the base for a whole new campaign I started</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Along with the Village of Hommlet module, Temple of Elemental Evil was what I planned as part of an ongoing demi-campaign series, something regarding Stoink to be the third, and then wherever my own group's play led for a concluding offering.</i> #5672</div><div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>My group spent a lot of time with adventures in Nulb and Stoink. That's another reason why I didn'd add more dungeon levels to the Temple...no need, as dungeon crawling was not paramount</i> #6506</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>The Moathouse was subsumed as being built by a local lord some decades before the ToEE came into existance.</i> #8683</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>After a lot of adventuring fun in Hommlet, and a foray into Nulb, the team went into the ToEE, explored, fought, withdrew, and came back again repeatedly. Robilar went in alone, smashed some magically shut gates with a pillar, and freed Zuggtmoy. Scenario over.</i> #2749</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>When the WoG was completed, I decided to start a new campaign based on Oerth rather than continue using my generally undetailed parallel earth setting. Thus I created the VoH, ToEE, Nulb and Stoink for nearby town adventures. As I had the whole envisioned from the start, there was a good deal of continuity in the end products. the Temple was meant to be the dungeon crawl base replacing Castle Greyhawk, and more levels would have been added, but... </i></div><div><i>When Robilar freed Zuggtmoy, I pretty well scrapped the idea of using it for ongoing adventures for my group, vowing to get back to finishing it eventually. As I was not able to do much DMing thereafter, that never happened, so Frank browbeat me into having him complete the unfinished ms. for the ToEE. Of course, that did not have the added levels, but it was complete and in order.</i></div><div><i>Frank followed my initial material, understands that I write with mainly critical details only so as to encourage the DM to make the work his own. </i>#4698</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>To cut to the chase, his possession of the orb is not general knowledge to the leaders of the Temple--only the general location of the object inside the place. Falrinth is as you describe him, self-interested and not particularly devoted to the aims of those who are in charge of the place.</i> [35]</div></div><div><div><div><br /></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>Lolth never made any appearances, but Zuggtmoy did. When Robilar freed her (yes, he again loosed another deital figure) she was grateful, took him off to her layer of the Abyss to be one of her favored servants... Robilar, and he was a veteran adventurer at this time, was not a happy camper then.</i> #374</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>The Demoness Queen of Fungi was not so clever, Robilar was brash. He tossed a pillar through the door sealing Zuggtmoy into the chamber in the ToEE. She got a look at the handsome adventurer, noted his evil aura, and as a reward for freeing her carried him off to the Abyss as her body servant. I did no go into details there, but eventually Robilar convinced her of the imcompatability of a lawful evil servant in her realm, so she sent his back to the PMP. </i> #5451</div><div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Rob was rather upset when his main PC was likewise treated, Robilar's orc henchman Quij, made a poncho out of the Flying Carpet he was guarding due to the long wait and cold nights, and eventual seige of his castle as word got out that Robilar had freed the evil from the Temple of EE...</i> #5453</div><div><br /></div><div><i>As for the Temple of Elemental Evil, Zuggtmoy is unkillable. she can be set free or sent back to the Abyss, but the PCs can not destroy her.</i> #5599</div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>No need for me to look at any other's take on the Demoness Queen of Fungi, the Zyggtmoy I created is the ONLY true exposition IMO. That is the depiction presented in the ToEE, of course</i> #4838</div><p><b>WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun</b></p><div><div><div><i>Actually the muse strick, so I devised the darkest evil entity I could envision, then devised the supposed tomb scenario to see how players would have their PCs react to it. Only a few felt the strangeness of the place, the sadness evoked by the loss of horrific evil. I did indeed control the art direction of that module. </i>#5457</div><div><br /></div><div><i>The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun was done with as much melodrama and pathos as I could muster for a rotter such as I envisaged that one to be. A few DMs really appreciate the mood of the module, its underlying implications. I specifically selected the unusual art to enhance the "different" aspect of the work. I say all that for your benefit when perusing the material.</i> #4411</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Of course The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun reflects my DMing:D</i> #1250</div><div><br /></div><div><i>The vile evil of Tharizdun is such that the adventurers must be comprimised to some extent in order to gain any real material reward from his temple. the truly benign party that refuses to yield thus to gain riches should be rewarded by special XPs. Likely I should have stated that, but when I wrote the module I was still making assumptions regarding the perspicacity of the vast majority of DMs that would use the adventure material...as if they could read my mind :\</i> #4432</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><b>S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Just a typo there. My original spelling was Tsojcanth, a name I made up to sound exotic even in the WoG context.</i> #8702</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I invited Rob to co-write the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth with me, after a couple of my PCs had adventured in his similarly mapped area. He declined, so I created a different map from that which he had made, and devised original encounters as well.</i> #6138</div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>G1-3 Aainst the Giants</b></div></div></div></div><div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>As a case in point, when I did the "Giants" series, I began with only the hill giants fort, but as that developed, the concept of a larger adventure came, so that by the time I had finished G1, the springboards for G2 and G3 were well in mind, and the whole of the underworld to follow as well.</i> #1698</div><div><br /></div><div><i>What has astonished me is than no group I know of has ever attemptet of impersonate young giants in the G1 adventure. I set it up so that could be done and would likely be effective too...</i> #4965</div><div><br /></div><div><i>By the time I wrote the G and D series modules, the group of players I DMed for had altered considerably from that of the early 70s, although Ernie and Rob and Terry Kuntz were still there. The adventures in the two series were indeed a part of the overall campaign, and a number of the PCs involved belonged to TSR employees, including Tim Kask and James Ward. We played in the TSR building a good deal after regular working hours.</i></div><div><i>The successful handling of the G and D series didn't really have any impact on the campaign, save to beef up the PCs. When the lads managed to penetrate all the way to the Vault of the Drow it was most disheartening to me. They took one look around and made haste to get away, so they never did much in the way of wreaking havoc down there, let alone run into Lolth or the Elder Elemental God.</i> #2308</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>G3</b></div><div><br /></div><div>[King Snurre near the Entrance] <i>Thinking back I most likely did it so as to offer a really major challenge to the adventuring party early on. While I didn't mention it, when I DMed the scenario I had King Snurre move to another area and set up an ambush with his flunkies when the PCs returned loaded for bear to get him. I recall Jim Ward's PC used a magic jar spell to take over the queen, and the party were nost eager to get poor little Obmi #5360</i></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The dragon was there as a part of the muscle of the fire giants--for attack and defense. It was not a part of a singular plot, but there as a general member of the overall one.</i> #5660</div></div><div><br /></div><div>Someone suggesting hit-and-run teleport tactics or deporting to the etheral or astral plane to rest:</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>If you apply the danger of use of the teleport spell, it is likely that there will be some dangerous times for the PCs. also, after a second raid such as you describe the giants would surely get help not otherwise mentioned in the module, say some objects that dispel magic. [35]</i></div><div><div><div><i>Those on the Ethereal Plane are able to see the PMP vaguely, as if thtough a thick haze or several layers of gauze. Assume vision extends out to a maximum of 30 feet, although movement of large objects could be noted at 60 feet distance. That you suggest for using the Ethereal Plane as a resting place is chancy, for many potent monsters can become ethereal and do so, traveling the place. If PCs playing in my campaign tried the tactics you suggest, they'd end up getting little rest and fighting a lot of opponents more dangerous than giants. When a few dismembered carcasses of PCs come flopping out of the Ethereal Plane I suspect the concensus will be that it is not a viable means to cheap success in quests of heroic sort.</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Indeed the Astral Plane is similar to the Ethereal, albeit there are even worse perils to risk when hazarding that plane other than for direct travel to a destination. (In short, it is up to the DM to make certain that the players do not get away by cheap tricks, the louts!)</i> [35]</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>S1 Tomb of Horrors</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>A chap named Alan Lucien gave me the inspiration...as I believe I stated in my original ms. for the module. </i> [35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div>[Tournament Modules] <i>There was little change from the campaign version of the modules in the published versions--added pregen characters is about all as I recall.</i> #5776</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>The Tomb of Horrors was inspired by material sent to me by Alan Lucien, and I believe I have credited him in this regard, but it has been so many years I can not recall where and how. Anyway...</i></div><div><i>The place was designed to test the mettle of the best players, stretch their ability to the maximum. That it did, while nor a few PCs belonging to very capable players bit the proverbial dust. Those players with real cran came back and kept trying until their PCs suceeded or else the DM grew weary of running the module. As I have mentioned, in my group only Rob Kuntz managed to get to the end of the advbenture, Robilar losing all of his orc flunkies at the onset, in the initial passage. When he found the tomb of the demi-lich Robilar scooped all the magical treasures he could into his bag of holding and ran off leaving the demi-lich hanginf, as it were. Tenser retreated from the perilous place, as did Terik.</i></div><div><i>Of course Mordenkainen never entered the place, but had he, the wily wizard would surely have come with his most potent associates, and brought plenty of powerful magic along. As with most other dedicated players, I too am averse to losing my favirite and long-luved PC.</i> #5480</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>The material in the ToH was for narrative purposes, color. I didn't wish to make the demi-lich an ongoing antagonist, for I thought it far too limited, so no details beyond those given in the module were developed. that sort of treatment also allows for free creative rein if one wishes to further exploit the subject </i>[35]</div></div><div><div><br /></div><div><i>Only the most veteran of my group attempted to explore the ToH with their regular PCs. Son Ernie and Terry Kuntz retreated when they discovered how difficult and deadly a dungeon their PC faced. Rob Kuntz with PC Robilar made it to the end, losing some dozen or so orc troops along the initial route, and when faced with the rising skull of the demi-lich did the logical thing for his character--scoooped up the treasure and retreated in utmost haste. Note all of those forays were by single PCs, Robilar accompanied by flunkies.</i></div></div><div><div><div><i>A number of large parties of PCs made the journey into the tomb, some with many survivors, and two I know of defeated the demi-lich. The most innovative solution was by a tournament group that used the reverse end of the scepter to touch the crown gained with it in the throne room. When the skull arose one of the PCs popped the crown on it, another used the scepter, and the demi-lich was powder. Russ Stambaugh was their DM, and when he told me what they had managed to pull off, I awarded them first place hands down.</i></div><div><i>The adventure is meant to be deadly, kill off all the unwary PCs, and make the survivors paranoid. It is best played with characters created for the adventure, not the regulars in a campaign, as the ToH is unforgiving and often results in TPK.</i> #2003</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>I didn't actually do much in the way of background, leaving that open so that when I brought Acererak into some yarn before he became a lich, after a demi-lich, I would have more creative freedom.</i> #5110</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I initially said Ace-RE-rak, then changed it to A-CER-er-AK because it sounded more exotic and threatening to me </i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">35</a>]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>As far as I am concerned, there is absolutely no connection between Acererak and Vecna!</i> #8770</div><div><br /></div><div><i>I never allow summoning of monsters in the ToH, so the party that enters can not be reinforced along the way.</i> #6948</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Robilar did venture into the ToH with a dozen of his orc bodyguards, but the lot were wasted in the entrance passage--I placed the pit traps knowing Rob's thinking and so got an orc in each and every one. Robilar tossed the last of them into the demon-mouth sphere of anhilation, then ventured on alone throughout the remainder of the module, got to the end, and as I said before, looted the treasure and fled without confronting the demi-lich.</i> #4462</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Robilar did that deed, but he then beat feet, no teleporting spell involved. IIRR, he had replaced his lost Boots of Flying with Boots of Speed :uhoh: I was quite unprepared for such a dirty trick </i>#7749</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>As son Ernie has said, when Tenser saw the nature of the tomb he simply retired from it not caring to risk life and limb for whatever treasure it might hold. </i><i>Anyway, as far as I am comncerned, Acererak needed some great source of magical negative energy to return to regular lich state, be able to manage such a return to his former "glory."</i> #7747</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Ernie playing Tenser didn't go for the situation and cleared out. Rob playing Robilar made it to the end, grabbed all the loot, and didn't bother fighting the demi-lich--not much profit in that by his estimation, not with all the treasure in his bag of holding. </i><i> #4422</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>A good example is the Origins I dungeon -- incidentally drawn from a similar tomb designed by Alac Lucion. Very few of the players who engaged in the tournament were able to think out the problems. In a test run, Rob Kuntz, in his game persona as a 13th level (evil) lord went through the entire tomb in four hours actual time. He took 14 orcs and a couple of low-level flunkies with him. He lost all the party, but his character personally looted the lich's tomb and escaped with the goodies. </i>[46]</div><div><br /></div><div>The original typewriter pages of the tournament module for ToH still exist and can be compared to the published module, for confirming Gary's recollection.</div></div><p><b>D1-3 The Underdark</b></p><div><div><i>My concept was that Eclavdra was aiming at dominance of the Drow through using the EEG to replace Lolth. she, as the chief priestess of the elemental deity would then be the mistress of all. The final scenario was to have been one in which the adventurers got involved in the battle between the evil entities and made it so that both lost and were tossed back to their own planes, relatively powerless in the Mundane world for some time to come. </i> #862</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>All the material in the D series was done exclusively by me, illustrations aside, of course. The additional areas of the underworld were sketchily detailed, but I have no idea where those notes have ended up:(</i></div><div><i>My players were not much delighted with the thought of continuing adventures there, so my efforts came to no useful end. My next plan was to detail the city or Erelheicindlu, but the lads absolutely refused to take their characters into the place</i> #1349</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>They felt the risks weren't worth the possible rewards. It was much the same in regards to adventuring on the Isle of the Ape where they calculated that the likelihood of PC death was too great for any possible gain thet might come from successfully managing the whole adventure. In sum I believe that they also didn't want to have to do all the roleplaying necessary to deal with the potent evil creatures they'd encounter regularly in the Drow city.</i> #1364</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>The Sunless Sea was indeed meant to serve as a place for further subterranean adventuring, of course. Always leave some room for that sort of thing, obvious or concealed in the setting</i> #862</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>To discover the temple the party was meant to do some big-time roleplay by entering the city of Erelheicindlu and mixing in with all the Evil NPCS and monsters there, ask questions, mabe even take a prisoner and question that one. Of course, many of the inhabitants of the Vault would know where the fane was located, so the DM could decide how to manage the matter--bribery, threat, whatever.</i> #832</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Oddly enough my group was not enamoured with the Underdark, especially the actual Vault of the Drow. I had hoped to make things rough with the vampire and succubus couple but they immediately became suspicious and alert when they saw the beautiful moonlit garden.</i> #7128</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>I had hoped to get to the Elder Elemental god in a sequel to the ToEE, but...</i> #860</div><div><br /></div><div><i>I wrote the D Series after the G ones, and both were set in the Flanaess, for by that time I had finished the world setting. It was easier for me to use it, what with the complete map and all </i>#4351</div><div><p><i>As for other large-scale maps, I was tinkering with some, developing ideas for more adventures in the depths, but none of my players, and that includes the most able with very potent PCs much cared to explore there, so I scrapped the plan.</i> #263</p><div></div></div><div><i>Well, Iggwilv could be anywhere it seemed a good place for her to have living or other sort of quarters :eek: If the party were sufficiently strong, they could indeed have an encounter with that lovely lady... #4690</i></div><div><br /></div><div><b>D3 Vault of the Drow</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>The G series of modules were aimed at testing PCs of mid level, and the D series were for higher level characters. The Drow city of Erelhicindlu was meant to be a scary place for 16th - 18th level PCs.</i></div><div><div><i>Outside of the Vault of the Drow, I have run very few high-level adventures. All of my players retired their PCs from general play when those characters reached the mid-teens in level. As most groups are of lower level, having a potent character with a party of lesser sort was not much fun.</i></div><div><i>I never used the tarrasque (Francois did in his games, also demi-deities). When wishing to challenge high-level PCs I use a combination of potent monsters, including demons or devils and tricks and traps. The encounter with the vampire and succubus in module D3 is a good example of that.</i><i> </i>#1975</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>You are the first one outside my family and confidants to note the relationship between Belgos the vampire and Bela Lugosi.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>If I could revisit something, two adventures spring to mind immediately--the city of Erelheicindlu in THE VAULT OF THE DROW and the Elder Elemental God and what might lie below the ToEE.</i> #49</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Although I did my best to get them to adventure in the city, none of them were willing to take the risks required. So they avoided the place as assiduously as they did the Isle of the Ape and my favorite critter, Oonga.</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>We did have PC in the place during a tournament we played at one of the small cons TSR ran in the winter, spring, and autumn; and one group did roam around a bit in Erelheicinlu without mishap. Another party were spotted by Drow, promised fair treatment if they surrendered, and they did just that. Of course the lot of them were stripped and sacrificed to Lolth.</i> [35]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>Isle of the Ape</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Terik was also the main actor in the various IotA [Isle of the Ape] adventures, as he took great exception to the chief's and witch doctor's initial treatment of him. A series of attacks followed, with retreats coming in due course, and then return visits with comrades to take revenge. Only after finally roughly handling the native population did the crew go into the island's interior. One PC, and I won't say which, met Oonga, got grabbed, wrenched, bittem, thrown down, and then drop-kicked off the ledge of the cave. A wish was expended to save him. That ended all interest in further adventuring there </i>#436</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>As for the Isle of the Ape, most of my guys hared it, but I loved that module, as I love the original King King motion picture</i> #5854</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><b>Orcus and Asmodeus</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>When playing in what became the D3 module someone in the group managed to gate in Asmodeus, and another character called for some entity as strong as that to oppose that devil. Of course I brought in Orcus when the call for assistance was deemed successful. The two are actually opposed of course... They had a fine time laughing at the grovelling mortals, then failed to agree as to who got whose souls. The dispute escallated, and the party escaped.</i></div><div><i>Not a lot of demons and devils were encountered in my campaign, and when they were it was usually a major fight to get rid of them. They tended to keep gating in reinforcements.</i></div><div><i>I would sometimes create a unique sort of minor demon or devil for the party to deal with, but. with the plethora of other monsters available this was a rare and "special" thing.</i> #1107</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>As my campaign never got to the point where the PCs were of a level to dare any encounter with deities of even lesser sort than Orcus, the sum total of my development of the demon lords is pretty much contained in the core monster books.</i></div><div><i>The only anecdote I have regarding Orcus is this: When a party I was GMing was in the D3 module, they got into such trouble that they pleaded for divine intervention withoug being specific. As this was successful (a d% roll of 00), I had Orcus appear, he being the most potent deity likely to have attention focused in that area. At that point the party was toast, so knowing that they again pleaded for divine intervention, this time specifying a deity opposed to a demon lord, but no more. Again they managed a successful roll, so Asmodeus appeared. Having an immediate understanding of what was happening, the two Evil deities did not fight, not did they bother with the foolish mortals who had summoned them. That was beneath them, of course. So they gated out and left the party to their fate. A couple of the characters actually managed to survive.</i> #1361</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>A group of players, including regulars that should have known better, did something that brought either Demogorgon or Orcus, I can not recall which it was, to the location of their relatively high-level PCs. They used a wish to call a potent deity opposed to that demon prince, not specifying that the one desired be of Good alignment, so who should appear but Asmodeus.</i></div><div><i>They were glad to escape with their lives, for I rules that the two great lords of Evil were so amused by such stupidity that they found it beneath their dignity to expunge such bumblers, that they would soon manage that themselves without the helping hand they could employ.</i> #8675</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>In one tournament session at a Autumn Revel, as I recall, a team managed to bring Asmodeus to their location. In desperation, one of their number called for a diety opposed to that devil to come to them. Being a kindly DM, I had Orcus arrive instanter. Oddly, the party were not in the least happy that I allowed such "divine intervention." I suppose it is because the two Evil beings took stock of the situation, saw no reason to fight amongst themselves, and simply divided up the "spoils" between them and left... </i>#374</div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Q1 Demonweb Pits</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I had what I consider a much more interesting plan for the conclusion of the G-D series, one in which the PC party could loose the Elder Elemental god or send him into deeper isolation, thus assisting Lolth to become more powerful. By very astute play, they could have thwarted the designs of both evil entities. The Demonweb Pits were indeed envisioned as maze like, but there were to be no machines therein.</i> #6349</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>There was a link between the Drow modules and the ToEE, mainly in my head, and after Q1 came out I rather lost interest in developing the former, as the EEG was not released from his banishment to a distant star (ala Set). I would have devised some other scenario to accomplish that, only the Drow and Lolth were not to be emulated in a hurry, and I ran oput of time to make the attempt, so Frank badgered me into having him complete the ToEE.</i> #5615</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><i>Lolth is meant to be a horrific demoness, something worse that the creepiest of arachnids, and her domain was meant to be one of shadows and webs and all manner of nasty lurkers waiting to pounce. The maze was fine, but all the rest, expecially the mechanical stuff, was not at all what I planned.</i> #6391</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>I did not write Q1, nor did I approve of it. complain to the Blumes, for they insisted on publishing it against my objections.</i></div><div><i>As for the chief antagonist, it was meant to be Exlavdra on behalf of the EEG, with the minions of Lolth, not the demoness per se., being second and a counterweight to the former as noted. The latter will fight against the Eilservs and tolerate for a time the presence of a PC party that is discommoding their foes.</i></div><div><i>When their efforts to free the Elder Elemental god from exile were thwarted, Eclavdra did indeed switch her allegience to a demon so as to remain powerful. The term Chaotic Evil suits all of the Drow well.</i></div><div><i>As for Q1, Ask Dave Sutherland and Brian Blume about that. It was taken out of my hands by the latter when Sutherland discovered the "Demonweb" pattern in a hand towel and talked Brian into using it as the main theme for the concluding module. I had no creative control over it.</i></div></div><div><div><i>I have said repeatedly in print that the Q1 module was Dave Sutherland's interpretation of Lolth, and most certainly not mine. In truth I thoroguhly disapproved of the work but Brian Blume had it produced. Steam power indeed :mad:</i> #5599</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>When Dave Sutherland did the Q1 as it was, and Brian okayed it, I was rather stuck. Lolth was supposed to be in there, and in the depths the prison of the Elder Elemental God. I had my hands full with the management of the D&D Entertainment Corp. out on the West Coast, so I couldn't get to the completion of the ToEE. That's when Frank Mentzer took a hand and filled in the lower levels that I hadn't detailed. That's why they ended where they did instead of proceeding downwards more to where the EEG's area was going to be.</i> #1421</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>Dave brought into the TSR offices, then at 723 Williams St., a towel that had a marvelous design that was perfect as a demonweb, so that's how he got into the project for creating the Q1 module. My outline for the whole was for a demi-plane outside of the Abyss, a great spiderweb with encounters at junctions along the way to the center, Lolth's abode there in the middle. The PCs would need to gather pieces of an artifact based on the four elements in the web in order to be able to face the demoness and send her packing back to the abyss. Of course, that would have called back the Elder Elemental God from his place of banishment...</i> #5602</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div>[Four shapes in the egg in Q1] <i>When I wrote an adventure I always tried to put in a few disguised hooks for later exploitation, or not, as the creative muse moved me.</i></div><div><i>As you note, the shapes were repeated in the ToEE as I did intend to tie the latter into the series. Lolth was to be connected to the temple, she the key to activation of that which would remove the imprisoning bonds from the Elder Elemental God. Of course that would have been by unintended consequences of her actions when the PCs discovered her.</i></div><div><i>How it was all to operate was something I never did get fleshed out. This was to happen in the lower levels of the temple, the development of which I never got around to because of my work out on the West Coast.</i> #1423</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>I was reserving Lolth, the drow, and even the Elder Elemental God for detailed treatment in a separate yarn that never got written. Seems the popularity of the dark elves rather closed that avenue--Bob Salvatore's books and all.</i> #1288</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>I was intimating that Lolth had taken a shine to Lareth, as he was beautiful, regrrdless of where his loyalties, if you will pardon the misapplication of the concept, lay. Lolth too can covet another's property... </i>#6478</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><b>Expedition to the Barrier Peaks</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I authored the Expedition to the barrier peaks, and it was a downed space vessel as noted, nothing based on any other work. #4498</i></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>The End</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>As a matter of fact I ceased the campaign in 1985 when I severed all times with TSR.</i> #6948</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div>[All Gygyx Campaign]</div><div><div><i>Keep on the Borderland</i></div><div><i>Village of Hommlet</i></div><div><i>Temple of Elemental Evil</i></div><div><i>Dungeonland</i></div><div><i>Land beyond the Magic Mirror</i></div><div><i>Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth</i></div><div><i>Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun</i></div><div><i>Steading of the Hill Giant Chief</i></div><div><i>Glacial rift of the Frost Giant Jarl</i></div><div><i>Hall of the Fire Giant King</i></div><div><i>Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure</i></div><div><i>Tomb of Horrors</i></div><div><i>Descent to the Depths of the Earth</i></div><div><i>Shrine of the Kuo-toa</i></div><div><i>Vault of the Drow</i></div><div><i>Isle of the Ape</i></div><div><i>(Necropolis, final portion)[35]</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Necropolis</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The Necropolis super-module was inspired by my own initial dungeon encounter area with an Egyptian theme. As I was studying/researching the Ancient Egyptian religion and the Duat underworld, the whole was pretty easy to create at the time.</i> [35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Castle Greyhawk at Conventions around 2005</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>How right you are, though, about the newer players not knowing when to retreat so as to fight another day! that's how my Old Guard Kobolds came into being, grew to be a force--killing PC parties that stayed and fought when it was clear they couldn't beat the little buggers.</i> #3426</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I have DMed OD&D, the three-booklet really original version, at a dozen cons over the past few years. I have players roll 3d6, record the scores in order. and play the characters as developed thus. I do modify the rules in regards HPs, have any 1 rolled count as a 2. We have a great time. Of course that's mainly due to nostalgia on the players' part, and I do my best to make the dungeon crawl exciting and unusual--encounters such as those with my Old Guard kobolds. </i>#1751</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>As a DM I made lemonade out of the "lemons" of the new players' reluctance to flee, to stand and die before a foe that was trashing them. That is how the Old Guard Kobolds came into being, and they have grown in both individual ability, numbers, and organizarion so they now pose a meaningful threat to PC parties of 4th or 5th level. Sadly, a group of such PC that were veterans took most of them out, but it was a casual play session, so I won't count it against the little humanoids</i> #5651</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>Of course I not only think that they are, but have observed the coddled state of many new gamers as they died before my now beloved Old Guard Kobolds or met otherwise useless deaths because they: 1) were not thinking, and/or 2) assumed that whatever they met in an encounter they could deal with, and/or 3) they expected a special DM intervention such as a save when they totally screwed up.</i></div><div><i>Finally, there is no distinction between "having a PC figure something out" and the player doing so, Unless a psychotic schizophrenic is playing, the two are not separate entities, as the player is making believe he is the game character.</i> #5645</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I just played a house ruled OD&D (three booklet) adventure at the Winterdark convention here, taking six created-on-the-spot 2nd level PCs on a dungeon crawl through the upper levels of my original Castle Greyhawk campaign, those dungeon levels being created in 1972 and 1973.</i> #8670</div><div><br /></div></div></div></div><div><i>In brief: We are using the three booklets. HP rolls are re-done if a 1 comes up. Fighters add +1 per die, and all PCs add +1 if their Con is above 14. Fighters add +1 damage for Str above 14. Dex does not affect AC just missile attacks. That's about it.</i> #2217</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>As for the mule, a wandering monster was indicated--the mule and the cart are noisy and attract a good deal of likely unwanted attention. As it was left alone, the mule was the prime target for the hungry gelatinous cube.</i> #8077</div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>The Small Greyhawk Campaign 2007</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Gary reran in the upper levels of an abbrevieated version of Castle Greyhawk in a home campaign. This is of course a great source of information on the dungeon. Also, his rules amendmends may give some insight on how he thinks things should be handled, although they may differ from the way he used to run it in 1973.</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I have only the 40 or so levels of the original Castle Greyhawk for A/D&D play. I am using seven of them in a separate format for this particular mini-campaign. In play-testing the Well of Shadows LA game adventure, my veteran players found the number of levels, seven therein, about as demanding and intense as enjoyable. Seven dungeon levels for a crawl is about twice that number in a formal module, so I know I have plenty of material to keep the group delving. </i><i>#2938 </i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Yes, only the three booklets and with house rules adjusting HPs and the effects of high, 15 or better, attributes of Str, Int, Wis, Dex, and Con. Each is given a +1 benefit to stats or spells.</i> #5558</div><div><div><br /></div><div><i>GYGAX HOUSE RULES 2007</i></div><div><i>• STR > 14: +1 to hit and +1 to damage if a Fighter</i></div><div><i>• INT > 14: +1 1st level m-u spell</i></div><div><i>• WIS > 14: +1 1st level cleric spell</i></div><div><i>• DEX > 14: +1 to AC, and +1 to move silently</i></div><div><i>• CON > 14: +1 HP per HD (same as a Fighter class gets, +2 if a</i></div><div><i>Fighter)</i></div><div><i>• CHA > 14: +1 (positive) on reaction checks</i></div><div><i>• HPs: Characters are only unconscious at 0 HPs. For each level a</i></div><div><i>character may have a minus HP total equal to the level, so a 1st level</i></div><div><i>PC is dead at -2, a 2nd level at -3, etc.</i></div><div><i>• When taking damage allow -1 HP per character level</i> <br /><br /></div><div>[From a Gygax post via <a href="http://cyclopeatron.blogspot.com/2010/03/gary-gygaxs-whitebox-od-house-rules.html">Cyclopatreon</a>, after the original forum post went down. I find especially the last point totally unbalancing at higher levels, and extremely strong even for level 2-3 characters, although it would not have entirely blanked most monster attacks. Maybe he also used to +1/HD dmg on the side of the monsters, in which case it would have evened out]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>My campaign group here is playing in a turncated version of the original dungeons that has indeed been "upgunned" because PCs have enabled the monsters inhabiting the levels to become better armed and most astute in their tactics. That said, I made the group begin 3rd level characters in hopes that they would feel more confident in exploring lower levels. THAT THEY HAVE REFUSED TO DO, AND NOW THEY HAVE ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF THE 1ST LEVEL MAPPED, AND ONLY A 3RD LEVEL M-U AND HIS GUARDS, A BAND OF GOBLIN SLAVERS, PLUS THE TWO COMPLEXES IN WHICH THE OLD GUARD KOBOLDS HOLD REMAIN AS ACTIVE ENCOUNTERS.</i></div><div><div><div><i>You are correct about the power of the PCs. I am using original D&D rules with only some few additions, so HPs and spells are limited drastically at 1st level. (At the time when those rules were written, it was assumed a typical adventuring party would have about 8 PCs plus as many hired men-at-arms</i> #2168</div></div></div><div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>We are playing the three-booklet version of D&D now, and I don't use any supplements, just rules changes I have made to give greater viability to the beginning characters.</i></div><div><i>When we play AD&D I use all the core rules, including the material in the UA book, or not. If the group is really old school, then we do not use the UA changes. I can enjoy DMing either way, so the players decide what they prefer.</i> #2735</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Gold: $500/ounce (coin metal)</i></div><div><i>Silver: $10/ounce (coin metal)</i></div><div><i>Copper: $1/ounce (coin metal)</i></div><div><i>Platinum, pure: $750/ounce</i> #2218</div></div></div><div><div><br /></div><div><i>Actually, I have been using the old dungeon levels in both OD&D and OAD&D play at many conventions over the past years--even ran my group through several of the oldest upper levels just this spring. thus I am well in tough with the material and the "feel" needed to re-do the whole in depth.</i> #4414</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>The Swine! :]</i></div><div><i>I refer to my players and their filthy 5th level PCs of course. Picking on those fine upstanding little kobolds at their level. They should be ashamed, not bragging and thumping their chests. It took a hold person the three sleep spells to do the vile deed.</i></div><div><i>Fortunately, they are adventuring in an abbreviated dungeon level construction, so the actual Old Guard Kobolds remain unaffected, are still around to beat the crap out of lower level parties not sufficiently astute to run away and come back when they are at 5th level :uhoh:</i></div><div><i>The party had pretty well mapped the first level, and the only remaining force there were the OGKs, so I suppose it was inevitable that the poor little dears met their fate. It gave me some considerable satisfaction that they dropped the offending magic-user to 0 HPs twice during the enconter. It was as if the random dice determination for PCs hit was sentient, knew that he was the instrument of their doom. He dropped 12 of them with his third sleep spell...</i></div><div><i>The thouls awaiting the party on a lower level will wreak revenge for their depridations above. As they are active in the dungeon complex, only wandering monsters will be likely to be encountered on the depopulated 1st level.</i> #2704</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>As a matter of habit I seldom use miniature figurines. None of my regulars bring one to represent their character/Avatar, and while I have plenty of such figurines they could use, I do not have much in the way of creature sorts, so those would have to be dice. That sort of spoils the spectacle. When we do formal demos, though, we use Dwarven Forge dungeons/caves and miniatures.</i> #5587</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>In the O/AD&D games I DM, I hand out XPs for eliminating foes, using spells and skills, doing the thing called for, mission success, as well as for loot gained--the latter being the main reason for most adventuring</i> #6435</div><div><br /></div><div><i>As the players don't seem particularly interested in town adventures, I skip all that and simply take away large amounts of money when they are in the city regaining health, resupplying, etc. That obviates the need for them to do what they would consider a waste of valuable adventuring time in hunting up a mage to id items for them.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>At 0 the PC is uncoscious (with a further -1 per level, so a 4th level fighter can be at -5), but a potion or a cure wounds can restore them immediately </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I do require that they taste potions and experiment to find out what the liquid does. If they discover something unusual, likely I'll have them visit the Striped Mage to have the object explained...</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div></div></div></div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-45217010014180417532021-07-23T00:54:00.020-07:002021-08-17T23:09:00.934-07:00Actual Rules used in the Greyhawk Castle Campaign<p>The published rules reflect the practice of play from the original campaign, but not everything needed to play is included in the OD&D leaflets (for example rules on initative are missing, or rules on number of monsters encountered in a dungeon encounter). And after publication they evolved, as shown in the Greyhawk and other supplements, then AD&D. </p><p>Likewise, not all the rules that were included in AD&D were actually used by Gary's group (and for good reason), he left out psionics, weapon speeds, weapon vs armor and the overly complexe initiative rules shown there, . In the Greyhawk Castle, campaign, a lot of <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/why-od-was-rules-light-system.html">rulings were done on the spot</a>, ignoring the books, to keep things moving, and therefore also the rules for class abilities or spell descriptions were often left vague, to allow the GM their own interpretation. But of course, players arguing one way or another wanted clarity. </p><p>I think Gary is right, if you spell out all the rules in detail, and then try to follow, this often leads to unwieldy long rules, in which you cannot find anything, and then spend your time looking up and reading up rules, instead of having fun, "Rule-Playing". 5e does a very good job to cover lots of bases with a relatively small set of rules, and also clarifies often that something is left to interpretation, and even there you have a sage advice blog with hundreds of nitpicky questions. </p><p>Here are the rules that were actually used, this a mix of rules from OD&D and AD&D time frames. </p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://i0.wp.com/nerdarchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FRONT.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="800" data-original-width="592" height="640" src="https://i0.wp.com/nerdarchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/FRONT.jpg" width="474" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><div><b>Stat Rolls & Bonuses</b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><div><i>As stats became more vital to a long-lived PC, I improved the players' chance to get a viable one quickly, one that they would be happy with. </i><i>In my campaign I allowed rolls of 4d6, three highest for the score, and arrangement of scores as the player wished. That enabled the creation of a character the player wished to play, of course. #1145</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>As a DM who wants the players to be as pleased as possible with the process. I typically allow stat rolls of 4d6, taking the three highest, and allowing the totals to be arranged in whatever order the player desires.</i></div><div><i>In regards to HPs, I typically say re-roll any 1</i> #4089</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>The usual is to have all the players roll up 2nd level characters--fighters, clerics, magic-users, dwarves, elves, of hobbits. I have house rules so that any score above 14 gains a bonus of some sort for the PC, As all the team os 2nd level equiment is whatever on the list is desired. </i></div><div><div><i>15 + attribute score chart:</i></div><div><i>STR +1 to hit for all (& +1 damage for fighters)</i></div><div><i>INT +1 1st evel spell (for m-us)</i></div><div><i>WIS +1 1st evel spell (for clerics)</i></div><div><i>DEX +1 to AC (for all)</i></div><div><i>CON +1 to each HD (for all)</i></div><div><i>CHA +1 to reaction checks (for all)</i></div><div><i>The party then enters the original 1st level of my dungeons and goes on from there.</i></div><div><i>This ensures that there is compatability of PCs, and believe me there is plenty of exploration and action to be had.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div></div></div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>We did indeed use the reaction adjustment for charisma as stated. That was used considerably when a PC was meeting and seeking negotiation with an NPC. No added rules were needed, only the DM's determination of what the PC's charisma would come into play. Persuation is pretty well a self-evident factor in interpersonal dealings.</i> #5188</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The minumum is just that. If any penalty reduces the character below the required minimum, another race must be selected...or a new set of character stats generated... </i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26882">11</a>]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>HP</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>In 1972 we all rolled 3d6, but later when AD&D made the stats more meaningful, players would keep rolling until they got more viable numbers, so then we switched to various systems--roll seven or eight times with 3d6 and keep the six best totals or roll d4d and throw out the lowest die.</i></div><div><i>After all, the object of the game is to have fun, and weak PCs aren't much fun for most players. Even fine role-players want characters with at least one or two redeming stats...</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I usually used method I, 4d6, toss out one, arrange the totals in any order desired, for that allows the player to have a better shot at getting the sort of character desired. </i>[35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>[hp level 1] Yes random rolls were made, but I always allowed a re-roll for a result of 1.</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I never used re-rolls in my campaign, nor did I ever play with a DM that used that device. What is rolled upon gaining a level is what remains ever thus, unless there is magical alteration or divine intervention. </i>#8597</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div>[Multiclassing] <i>Add HD and average at all times. If a level is lost half of the average of one HD is lost in the process. The character's level is the higest of one class and half of the levels of another. thus a F6/M-U4/T6 is equal to 11th level No it is the total of the highest plus half of the other.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Monster HP</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>For big monsters like demons I was using d10. I used the 9 HD column for 8+8, but one could reasonable use the 10 HD column. #1664</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Indeed all the PCs got an extra HD per level after an initial few months of play otherwise, even the MUs. then we always had fighters gaining +1 point to the die roll, and we counted Con bonuses only for fighters. This general idea was reflected in the varied HD gain used in OAD&D, with fighters getting d10, clerics d8, magic-users their d4, etc. #2482</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>I play it thus: Of the critters are raiders, warriors, of active hunters I assume that all of them will have one-half or more of the possible HPs for their type. If I want to make the encounter special, I then see if any of the members are in ill health or wouded.</i></div><div><i>For straight out confrontations, though, I just have at it with HPs as noted...and ogres and giants and like big and tough monsters have d12 HD</i>. #7523</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I have indeed tinkered with hit dice. Currently I use further adjustments for mature and robust members of a species. If the HD involved is a d4, the spread for each is 3-4, for d6 it is 4-6, for d8 it is 5-8, etc. That avoids having pushover adversaries that are supposedly potent ones. Young and old members of the species are treated in the obverse in regards to HD point spread. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>I say that as barbarians get d12 for HPs, then clearly extrapolation of the same principle must apply to large and vigorous creatures. This mitigates the potential increase in PC prowess. As a matter of fact, adult critters were assigned 7-12 HPs per HD in my AD&D campaigm--have been given the same in what I have designed for the C&C game system. Also, with increase in damage due to Strength, all large and powerful monsters, including ogres and giants, gain a damage bonus equal to their number of HD.</i></div><div><div><i>Admittedly, this is not in the UA work, but it logically follows, and would have been included in the revised edition of AD&D that I was planning.</i> #7786</div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><div><b>Skills and Proficiencies</b></div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div>Gary also used a simple and practical way to approximate skill checks, similar to what Das Schwarze Auge did in Germany in its first edition, estimating who would be trained in what kind of skill based on the class background. </div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>If a player wanted a character to do something not covered by class but otherwise logically possible I would usually have a check rolled against the associated ability, with a bonus or penalty depending on the action and the difficulty rating I considered applicable. the rolls were made on d20 against the ability, as adjusted, a score of at or under the number arrived at meaning a success. #2015</i></div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>As AD&D is a class-based game, there is little recourse to skills. A ranger, for example is assumed to know a lot about survival in the wilderness, that including what plants are poisonous or beneficial. I use something like 5% chance per level, plus Intelligence for chance of success when the demand is difficult, otherwise just allowing the find or whatever to happen on a die roll of 1-3, 4, or 5 on d6 depending on how likely it is the object sought for will be there.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Generally common sense was applied. A fighter in metal armor can't move silently, but without that impediment a Dex ability roll with modifiers for surface and/or footwear, would be called for. Same for climbing, metal armor makes that almost impossible, plate particularly so. When climbing or some like activity, was required for a group, I set a probability for all non-thieves, and had each player roll for his PC. The check might have been on any die; for example jumping over a crevass might use d6, a 6 meaning a failure, or a d10 with 9-0 or only 0 a failure. Again, arbitrary perhaps, but based on common sense. the main idea was to convey the sense of danger with a reasonable chance for success, perhaps a more than reasonable one for the sake of the game #2015</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div>[Weapon Profienciency] <i>Very specific. Thus the limit of proficency being by type of sword. that same stricture was meant to apply to each and every separate weapon, for the bonus is considerable.</i> [11]</div></div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>Combat</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Not sure what Mike is referring to as "alternate," as this was the adopted design path from the beginning. The 20 sided-die system was used during the playtests and written into the drafts mailed by EGG to others. Corollary: Tractics (1970-71 playtests) that used 20 poker chips with attached numbers 1-20 and pulled from a can for adjudicating attacks). The Chainmail rules had very little significance in the playtests by way of former mechanics; and there are distinct examples in play that I (while playing Robilar) can refer to for this when I attempted such bridges in one-on-one play (as opposed to mass combat). </i>[RJK, 42.3]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Gronan called it the "alternate" combat system because that is how it named in Men & Magic!</i></div><div><i>Mere verbal positioning by EGG, which I skipped in the matter as such. He wanted to draw in Wargamers and not alienate any who were primed to transition from Chainmail to an obviously different system; same as noting that the rules were useable with miniatures and promoted as such, even though we never used any ourselves in the playtests </i><i> </i>[RJK, 42.3]</div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>We usually managed combat thus:</i></div><div><div><i>1. Roll d6 for initiative, low score going first.</i></div><div><i>2. Weapons attacks and spells with a segment cost of 1</i></div><div><i>3. Spells with more than 1 segment time involved add 1 pip to the initiative roll per segment, so 2 adds 1, 3 adds 2, and so on. A 6-segment-long spell adding 5 meant that at best it would happen simultaneously with the opponents actions who had rolled a 6 on initiative.</i></div><div><i>4. Moving into combat range against a longer weapon gave the opponent first attack.</i></div><div><i>5. Simultaneous attacks occured together where adjusted initiative was the same for both sides.#1529</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div>[Ini] <i>I do usually have only two rolls when a large character party is engaged in combat with a large group of adversaries, though. that makes for speedier and less confusing combat resolution, albeit at the sacrifice of "realism".</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Yes. the d10 matches the division of the round into segments and so is more intuitively understood</i> [11]</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>We used only initiative and casting times for determination of who went first in a round. The rest was generally ignored save in the most critical situations when rules lawyering might enable saving a PC. I did use weapon length for the NPCs as a factor when I DMed so as to manage to get in some first attacks on PCs, and players who had good Dex could factor that into their initiative when using bows, sure. If they didn't, okay :D In all, we played to have fun, and in the throes of a hot melee rules were mostly forgotten except as a feature of the combatant's nature, if you will. If it seemed logical then none of the veterans would look for a rule to the contrary. #878</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>When an opponent was helpless I always allowed an immediate kill if of lower level; otherwise a successful hit killed, a "miss" doing double damage anyway. #692</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>To make it quick and easy, we always used the target's AC, except as you note for shocking grasp against metal armor which is the same as no protection. That all makes sense to me, because a touch means contacting a bit of exposed flesh or possibly a garment touching the subject's bare flesh. A shield fends off such a touch, and dexterity enables better avoidance of such contact. #2486</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Actions must be declared or obvious--such as continued close-quarters combat. If some character desires to change a declared action in a round, then I generally assume that the alteration occurs at mid-point.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>All the weapons do the same amount of damage in OD&D, yes. However, in cases of tied initiative, the longer will attack first, and swords are more durable than weapons with wooden shafts. As for the advantage of using a cheaper weapon, it is logical, and a club kills as surely as a sword. Only social class distinction is concerned in regards to what weapon is used for the deed</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>I use stunning attacks as if they were normal, but only 10%of damage is actual, the balance temporary. when a character gets to 0 HP or below they are out cold for 1 plus as many minutes as they have accumulated negative HPs.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Actually, I did keep track of negative HPs, and I still do for LA game critters that regenerate. At 3 HPs per round recovery most trolls were back in their feet in a couple of rounds...if left alone. Not a few of the poor things got knocked down to something like -20 by a mass attack, and by the time they were getting things back together in came the flaming lamp oil...</i> [11]</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Spell Casting</b></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>Spell-casters must announce their actions, name any spell they mean to cast. If they are successfully hit and damaged before it is cast, the spell is lost. In other words, I am DMing those matters as I have for about 33 years now</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>A spell-caster struck and losing HPs thereby before completion of spell casting does indeed have the casting interrupted, the spell fails and is lost.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The first system for determing what happens is the best one, the only one I ever used. If the weapon-wielder has the initiative and strikes the spell caster, the spell is blown. If he misses, or the spell caster wins, the casting time allows, then the spell is activated and takes effect.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>A 1 segment casting time duration means that the spell is cast in the initiative segment indicated by the die roll. In your example of a 4, that's when the spell is cast. Each casting-time segment above 1 is added to the 4 to find the segment of casting, so a spell with a casting time of 3 segments would be cast in the 6th segment. all action begins at the start of a segment and just before the next spells being cast are active. Yes, a long spell can stretch into the next round. however, a 6-segment casting time would add 5 to the number of the initiative segment that casting began, as it covers 1 segment. in your example, the spell would be case in segment 1 of the folowing round (6 + 5 = 11, so that's the 1st segment of the next round.) If the caster isn't disturbed, that's often a good thing... Spellcasting takes up the entrie round in which it was actually activated, so there is no chance to cast twice in a round or even begn a new spell in the same round that one was successfully or unsuccessfully cast. No, a spell-caster attacked before he or she begins the casting is not prevented from starting thereafter....if life remains </i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Spell-caster resting to recover spells was contemplated to occur once per day, just as one normally sleeps, but light condition/time of day is not a factor. The once per 24-hour period is the measure.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>Yes, I would alow a PC or NPC to move and cast.</i> [11]</div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>One did not have to worry about material components for spell casting in OD&D </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Spells are cast as 1st level when they are initially included in the capacity of a class. Thus, the levels of non-spell-casting sort are not counted.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Never should an M-U be allowed to change from one announced spell to another, nor to cast two spells in the same round.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div>[NPC spell selection] <i>All you need to do is put your PC in place of the NPC and then choose and roll for the possession of the best spells--or else simply decide four yourself and forget chance.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26882">11</a>]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><b>Surprise</b></div><div><p><i>D6 for surprise, 1 = 1 free round, 2 = two free rounds. D6 for initiative, ties meining simultaneous attacks. </i>[11]</p></div></div><div><p><i>As far as my intent went, there was no difference between a blow and a missile attack in regards to surprise.</i> [11]</p></div><div><div><i>Deduct the ranger's three from the critter's five, and you have a difference of two, so that means the critter against the ranger has 2 in 6, the ranger only 1 in 6. When two sneaky types are about to bump into each other I think surprise is pretty unlikely on the part of either adversary. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Surprising and being surprised are components of the surprise factor. That has to do with stealthy approach and alertness. If both parties in such a situation are stealthy and alert, then chances for surprising and being surprised are minimal.</i> [11]</div></div><div><div><br /></div><div><b>Critical Hits and Damage</b></div><div><br /></div><div>[Critical Hits] <i>Not in a game I run...though if the players really insist I can deal with it as I tend to roll a lot of 18, 19, and 20 results for the NPCs/monsters. so if they want their PCs dead quickly, I can oblidge</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><b>Grappling</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>We sometimes used the SR system in grappling melees, but most often the DM simply weighed the situation and ajudicated without all that dice rolling. Thus, eight orcs getting the jump on a 4th level fighter would be assumed to overpower him with some loss to themselves--d6 and another die roll for each KOed in the struggle, a score of 6 indicating killed in action.</i></div><div><div><i>You are on target in regards the examples of low-level monsters seeking to come to grips with a strong PC. Eight orcs will likely be slain by a well-armored 4th level fighter unless they use their sheer numbers to overwhelm him.</i></div><div><i>I now have that happen when pack animals attack characters. Two wolves, dogs, or hyenas, for example, both successful in hitting the same target human (or humanoid), will knock him down and put him at a considerable disadvantage. #2329</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>That isn't in the rules, just the way I ran my game sessions. Same for PCs being overborn by swarming attackers. I'd have it automatic if four man-sized attackers succeeded in closing with the character unless OC strength was 18 or better and the attackers weren'y also strong and heavy (seat of the pants DMing there</i> [11]</div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Healing</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>If a cleric heals any sort of character so as to be back above 50% of HPs I generaly allowed normal activity, set aside the requirement for bed rest, if the situation were dire and another person was needed by the party.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I can pass along how I would manage the question of such special forms of damage being inflicted by creatures normally affected only by magical attacks. As similarly potent, non-magical, monsters can inflict harm on them, I would ignore the minor damage delivered by throwsin hand-to-hand fighting, but allow damage for long falls, heavy objects falling and striking, etc. What I would do in such case is record normal damage, but lost HPs would return, just as a troll regenerates, likelt at 1 HP per HD of the monster, as only magical damage can permanently affect the subject. Actually, a dropped or hurled object of considerable density, hardness, and weight is about the same as that. that said, would a demon really be killed by a fall of even 1,000 feet onto rock? I think not, and the same for most monsters that can be harmed by magic or other monsters. Thus the regeneration. The DM needs to consider the cause of damage and decide if regeneration is appropriate and at what rate. Some creatures being "killed" by attacks of magical sort or extreme force will merely be sent back to their own plane as is well known </i>[11]</div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><b>XP Awards</b></div></div><div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I gave XP awards for clear thinking, use of spells, clever solutions to problems, and sometimes for repartee. Determining what constitutes good roleplaying is situational and subjective. Most other awards are based on action and easy to determine. Basing XP awards thus means no players felt discriminated against. #2762</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When the PCS gained their XPs mainly through adventuring, active combat, spell-use, thieving, exploration and the like I didn't usually require any extensive training, often allowing them to assume they trained "on the job," so as to goin a level immediately.</i></div><div><div><i>Only when an adventure brought a great windfall of XPs so as to make a sudden jump in level possible did I demand that the PCs stop adventuring and find mentors to train them. That happened about once every three or four level gains even with my best players. </i></div><div><i>Above a certain level, say 15th or so, who is around to train such PCs. In that case an enforced period of self-study was directed for the PCs in question.</i> #1413</div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>Poison</b></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>As rounds were of one minute length, not much beyond a minute was given for poison to prove fatal. If a cleric was on hand to neutralize the toxin, then fine, it was allowed by me and all the DMs I knew. #3629</i></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>Bringing back from the brink of, or actual, death due to poison is not a cure. The SP spell slows the effects of the poison, but it will not stop them. Only a NP will do that. How long the victim of poisoning will remain alive under a SP spell effect is up to the DM, but I allowed a full 24 hours.</i> #7737</div><div><br /></div><div><div>A failed poison save means coma and death results in a period of time. Neutralize Poison cast before the alotted time expires means the toxic substance is removed from the victim's system and death does not occur. [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26882">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><b>Falling</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>As far as falling damage goes I revised the damage to 1d6 per 10' per 10', so that it went 1, 3, 6, 10, 15 d6 at 50' distance. All the munchkins howled at the progression</i> #3858</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>No, what really matters is that a fall of 10' can be lethat, and one of 30' onto an unyielding surface is deadly about 999 times out of 1,000. It is ludicrous to argue physics in a game based on pure fantasy, is it not? Thus, I assert with assurance that a falling damage formula of 1d6 cumulative per 10' fallen fits the game system most properly, with a cutoff at 100' even though terminal velocity hasn't been reached. So a fall of 100' earns 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10 d6 damage; a mere 55d6 that might all come up as 1s, and a generous DM might allow a saving throw as well to halve damage</i> #3942</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Yes, I allowed saves against falling damage, or large and heavy objects falling onto a PC, just as the table indicates</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><b>Magic Items</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Before the D&D game was published, in early 1973, I allowed any class of character to use a wand, but if they were not a mgic-user, they had to roll their Int or ledd on 3d6 to make it work. The pla</i><i>yers generally liked that, but I scrubbed the rule as it blurred class lines. #5713</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>Gunpoweder</b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><div><div style="font-style: italic;">Adding functional gunpowder to a milieu already filled with active magic that did many things similar to what explosives do seemed both redundant and out of the spirit of a magic-active world. The changes that gunpowder wrought in history are manifold and evident. Furthermore, to bring it into the fantasy mix would mean not only more rules governing it, but more magic aimed at surpressing its effects. As Oerth was a differnet world, gunpowder and like acting (gas expansion) explosives were never meant to function in the future time there. #498</div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><b>Henchmen and Hirelings</b></div></div><div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I would suggest giving the player immediately upon gaining a henchman a CRS done in bare bones fashion. As the PC and henchman adventure together, the DM and the player in conjunction then detail the henchman's personality, motivations, etc. </i></div><div><i>Followers that are ranked with levels should be treated as henchmen. Hirelings are, as you suggest above, only rated by HPs and what they can do--mostly bear arms. The player need not know their HPs, or may have such information, at the DM's discretion.</i> #5609</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The rule is meant to apply to the maxmum number of henchmen a PC is able to command at any given time, not a lifetime number. One or more might be dismissed or be lost, and such vacancies can be filled with new retainers.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Normal persons, and specially attained henchmen do not count against the number attracted to the successful PC lord.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>As hired men-at-arms are 0 Level we figured they got a half share. All party members' levels were totaled, then the men-at-arms at .5 of a level each, and that was the number by which treasure shares were divided. In my campaign each m-a-a was paid an up-front wage of 10 gp for a dungeon crawl of one day length. </i>[<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Encumberance, Movement and Equipment</b></div><div><br /></div><div><i>As you note, keeping track of charges and missiles is a bother, so I make the players keep their own records. If I find one fudging the talley, the lot of whatever was being kept track of is lost to some unfortunate event.</i> #6939</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>An unencumbered human has a base movement rate of 12, I'd give the short-legged folk a base of 9. </i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>A steel helmet of some sort is assumed. If the Avatar refuses same, one-seventh of all hits are on the unprotected head, and aimed attacks can strike there as well.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>As for what weapons need to be used with both hands, well that's a matter of common sense. the bow is one, so is the two-handed sword. All pole arms, long spears, and pikes need both hands. A battle axe if a relatively short-hafted weapon that is wielded with one hand. although two can be used as with a bastard sword.. To halflings most weapons they can wield are two-handed. To ogres and their ilk most human weapons that they can use are one-handed. To worry about that sort of thing verges on wargaming...combat simulation</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><b>Coin Standard</b></div><div><div><br /></div><div><i>No. I didn't switch for my OA/D&D play until very recently when I changed all my campaign play over the the LA game monetary system. 1 ounce of copper = $1</i> [on question about silver standard] [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>It is based on a toally inaccurate ratio of precious metal values. silver to gold has always been more like 40:1. Also, the C&C cash system is cumbersome and non-intuitive. The LA game monetary system,, OTOH, is easily grasped and the base unit coin of 1 oz. copper equates to $1, silver to $10, gold to $500--a really valuable coin that. Call the buc whatever you like--bezants, crowns, ducats, etc. No matter, and prices for many ordinart things can be calculated easily by using the contemporary one. call them bezants, crona, crowns, ducats, florins, etc. depending on the locale and my whim. Makes the players most disconcerted at times</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><b>Unused Rules</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div>[<b>Shield not always counting</b>] <i>Actually, that rule is better ignored, so that the shield is always counted in AC unless the attack is from behind or the unshielded side in the case of two or more attackers against one.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I did not use <b>psionics</b>, generally ignored <b>weapons vs. armor type</b> and <b>weapon speed</b>. </i><i> #692</i></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><i>You are right about "<b>psionics</b>" in AD&D. The system wasn't really set up to handle them properly. No player in my group had them, not did I ever play a PC possessing them in AD&D. #1662</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>The <b>weather tables</b> were done by another person, so you are actually preaching to the choir, more or less. While I was quite satisfied with informal climatology and general information in regards weather, many gamers wanted more specific systems. Frank Mentzer had a friend with such data, so that is how the weather tables for Oerick came about. I must accept the blame for incongruities, of course, as I okayed the material. Of course, being a DM who always flew by the seat of his pants, I never used them, so I failed to spot the glitches. When I was running a game the weather was what I said it was #1994</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>All of the material in UA was mainly of my creation, gathered from articles I wrote in Dragon magazine. virtually all of that material was used in my campaign, much of it before the book was published. I never used anything from the other two books, though, the <b>survival guides</b>. </i><i>#2015</i></div></div></div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div><div></div></div>Groodyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11807640588820379915noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-31506020559761266102021-07-21T14:51:00.055-07:002022-02-05T01:10:10.035-08:00Railroads & Rules<div><div>Meaningful decisions are at the heart of role playing.</div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEj3ygfE9KmHBaPH1iKJhsS9p1dE0943pZK8ofxz63dUDXx591Gx-p-rrB3I9jztXLOfm6-2tBSG8DKY9xoGqd111XmYe-4aQ9Be7Nkb2rUcd-buAyiAf9NLJDEBKSd-Ng8BffvxMoDSYuPGApcvHxSsicSLsO5lWZR1ThSDpUAbF1-YZobr4tIgKn4=s996" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="843" data-original-width="996" height="542" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEj3ygfE9KmHBaPH1iKJhsS9p1dE0943pZK8ofxz63dUDXx591Gx-p-rrB3I9jztXLOfm6-2tBSG8DKY9xoGqd111XmYe-4aQ9Be7Nkb2rUcd-buAyiAf9NLJDEBKSd-Ng8BffvxMoDSYuPGApcvHxSsicSLsO5lWZR1ThSDpUAbF1-YZobr4tIgKn4=w640-h542" width="640" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><b>Player agency, not railroading and predefined plot</b></div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>RPGs are games, not stories told by the GM. Stories might develop from play, but setting forth a complex storyline that the characters must needs follow in order to succeed, and suit the hubris of the frustrated novelist cum GM, is right out. RPG campaigns and novels are polar opposites. That should be self evident. Suffice to say that the participants should not be playing scripted characters following the course set forth by the GM's "storyline." </i><i>A bit of backstory to ground the players in the setting and give them an idea of what is currently happening is sufficient direction. From there on it must be up to them. #6761</i></div><p><i>I don't ever think of myself as a "storyteller." that role is fulfilled in the course of play through the combination of the GM and the players, each doing their part to develop and bring to fruition, the basic outline of the episode #287</i></p><p><i></i></p><p><i>I consider any game where the players' characters are not fully able to impact the environment, direct their action, determine the outcome of events in which they play a part, and know that what actions their characters are taking have a probability of success and failure that can be determined by random means, cards or dice rather then the whim of the GM, is something other than an RPG. Authors of fiction, screen plays, and playwrights create stories. GMs direct game play and in conjunction with the players this generates a story whose outcome is not prescribed. #611</i></p></div></div><div><div><div><i>Writing fiction and game mastering are not at all similar. In the former the author relates a story from beginning to end, and the reader is a spectator to events given in the work. </i><i>Game mastering requires a setting and an initial plot line, players to take the roles of the protagonists, NPCs and monsters to be the adversaries. From that beginning the players direct the action, create new plots, alter the setting by their actions, give the basis for an ex post facto story. #6230</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>You are correct, amateur theater is not popular with me, as I think that the story in a RPG campaign needs to be outlined by the DM, then "written" by him and the players' characters in interaction with the campaign environment, so that the events that take place are unknown until they have taken place. #1432</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>"Storytelling" games are not RPGs. Neither are "diceless" games. </i><i>An RPG creates a story, does not follow a script. That's a play, possibly improv theater. In a real RPG the GM develops a backstory and plot, sets the scenes, and then the PCs interact with those and by their actions create the actual tale, the events and conclusion of which are indeterminate until that occurs. </i><i>#1731</i></div><div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>The GM is to provide the environment, the plot (mostly unrevealed initially) and backstory for it, including why the PC team is there. The GM also supplies and acts for all of the NPC, allowing the players to sort out the friends, neutrals, and antagonists. The players' PC then interact with the environment and the characters therein so as to create a story based on what they did or didn't do. The quality of the resulting tale, retold or not, is dependant on the information supplied by the GM and the actions of the player groups' characters interacting with the enviroment. #6908</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Characters should have as much free will as possible in an RPG, don't you agree? The concept of the DM banning them from class-bestowed activity is odious.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I have long held that an RPG based in a work of fiction is not going to be much in the way of a game, but that modules utilizing such works absed on an established RPG system are likely to be interesting indeed as demi-campaigns.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I do not, and I stress NOT, believe that the RPG is "storytelling" in the way that is usually presented. If there is a story to be told, it comes from the interaction of all participants, not merely the Game Master--who should not a "Storyteller" but a narrator and co-player! The players are not acting out roles designed for them by the GM, they are acting in character to create the story, and that tale is told as the game unfolds, and as directed by their actions, with random factors that even the GM can't predict possibly altering the course of things. Storytelling is what novelists, screenwriters, and playwrights do. It has little or no connection to the RPG, which differs in all aspects from the entertainment forms such authors create for.</i> [36]</div><div><p><b>How to offer interesting adventures, when the players go off track?</b></p><p>If the players have full freedom to go and do whatever they desire, they can of course easily opt to not play the adventure the DM has prepared, and go somewhere else. In Gygax campaign, his <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/garys-modules.html">players got out</a> of the Vault of the Drow ASAP, much to his chagrin. </p><p>One answer of course is <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/od-improviation.html">improvisation</a>. Or pull out another adventure that is formatted well enough to be used without much prep. </p><div>Another is to take a step back and talk with the players, outside of the game. There should be a willingess by the players to cooperate and not rejecting an adventure you took the effort to prepare for them without good reason. It the style or content of the adventure is something they really dislike, you also should take this to heart and provide something more to their liking next time.</div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b8/01/30/b8013095682d6eac547410d4b86d153f.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="269" data-original-width="447" height="269" src="https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b8/01/30/b8013095682d6eac547410d4b86d153f.jpg" width="447" /></a></div><p><i>As for me, if I have gone to the trouble of preparing something for the group, they play it or else. The enjoyment of the campaign is a two way street, and that of the GM is equal to that of the player group, for he does all the grunt work to amuse them. Now if it is just a seat-of-the-pants session, I have no problem shifting gears and dangling another carrot for the lads to chase after. #6921</i></p></div></div></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><b>Rules help to make the world real</b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div>Why do you need rules? Why not just narrate what happens?</div><div><br /></div><div>Rules that quantify abilities, difficulties and probabilities of success make a role-playing game different from improv theater. They give players agency, because they allow them to estimate chances of success and failure for their actions, and they help create an environment, where neither the players, not the DM can know the outcome of an action beforehand, keeping the tension up.</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Yes, when variables and outcomes are known, and the random number generation is done so all can see, there is no railroading -- make that GM fudging -- possible in regards the probabilities and the outcome. When the GM is able to pull "results" out of thin air, there goes a structured game. #619</i></div><p><i>Rules are necessary for a structured game, doubly so when it is based on fantasy where no real facts are available to the participants. then the structure becomes the major feature of play, though, then it is at least as onerous as roll-playing, so both terms are equally damning. If a game is nothing but role-playing, then it is not really a RPG, but some form of improvisational theater, for the game form includes far more than acting out assumed roles. #1301</i></p><div><div><b>Rules get in the way</b></div></div><p>On the other hand, Gary went on record many a time and stated, that he as DM ignored, threw out or overrode the rules, where they did not seem to fit or got in the way of the action he wanted to see. This gets dangerously into railroading territory, and as GM you have to be honest to yourself and refrain from pushing things in a direction you want (unless maybe it is to have mercy with an unlucky PC). <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/od-rules-light-system.html">Light rules</a> are best, if you want to avoid breaking immersion by looking them up or discussing them. </p><div><i>Death to all rule-players and rules lawyers</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>The original games of D&D and AD&D were about imagination, choosing an archetype to use as a vehicle for role-playing adventure, innovative play and PC group cooperation. The sole arbiter of such play was the DM, and rules lawyers were anathema #6741</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Players should be concentrating on enacting the role of their in-game persona. not looking at charts and tables to study probabilities. The game form is about that, not combat simulation</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Rules Improvisation</b></div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>When I was introduced to the game the rules were up in the air. The rules books gave the initiate a sense of the mechanics, like a script outlines a movie, yet can say nothing about the effect of the final performance or directing. Back in the day, the script/rules were under constant change in order to better accommodate the actors and directors. The rules were a tool that could be rearranged rapidly and easily, to greater dramatic effect.</i> [41, RN Shook]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>When I GM I prefer to "wing it" much of the time, and ignore rules that get in the way of the flow of the adventure. The same is true when I play a character, prefering to use logic and imagination in preference to hunting up rules. In short, I do not like rules-heavy systems. Rule-playing is worse than roll-playing. I can enjoy a good deal of hack & slash, but even a bit of rules lawyering makes me want to go and find something else to do. #1743</i></div><div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>My belief is that the rules for an RPG should facilitate the enjoyment of the game for all concerned. If they get in the way then they are no good. #530</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>How often I have ignored my own in the PHB, DMG, and more recent systems' core rules books would make a rules lawyer's head spin. As if one can not amend one's thinking due to experience and to simplify the complicated</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>To adhere to rules that do not further the game enjoyment is contrary to the purpose of the whole. The game must be entertaining and enjoyable.</i> [11]</div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>When climbing or some like activity, was required for a group, I set a probability for all non-thieves, and had each player roll for his PC. The check might have been on any die; for example jumping over a crevasse might use d6, a 6 meaning a failure, or a d10 with 9-0 or only 0 a failure. Again, arbitrary perhaps, but based on common sense. The main idea was to convey the sense of danger with a reasonable chance for success, perhaps a more than reasonable one for the sake of the game #2015</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I've always "winged" much of the play, ignoring rules and skimping on DM duties so I could have fun in the adventure too #884</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Of course when I was DMing the rules were highly flexible and nor necsessarily what was written in the books... #5869</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Generally, I just DMed on the fly, so to speak, and didn't use the rules books except for random encounters, monster stats, and treasure. #692</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Fact is, i have a lot of fun just playing and "winging it." If the players aren't lost in known rules they tend to have more fun that way, and the sense of wonder comes back... #892</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Players who attempt to use the rules as a stick to beat players, or the GM, the latter thus enhancing their character in the game, are anathema to me. Hells bells! If some player in a game I am running demonstrates to me that some rule I have written makes no sense in the situation at hand. or I happen to discern that without such "encouragement," I toss the book out the proverbial window for the case at hand, and likely take a hard look at the material for continued application. #530</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I never did create house rules, but I seldom open a book either. I create much material and referee on the fly as the players have their characters interact with the game environment. #3098 </i></div><div><br /></div><div>I guess if you wrote the game, any rule is a house rule. He did use rules <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/actual-rules-used-in-greyhawk-castle.html">deviant from the pulished ones</a> and later on also defined house rules to codify some of these deviations.</div></div><p>Now, either the DM follows the rules, or the DM calls whatever is right for the situation, but that again makes the outcome close to DM fiat. Having rules and then not following them is arbitrary, and appears to give the DM leave to justify whatever he prefers at the moment. </p><p>To resolve the contradiction, consider the goal: allow characters to drive their actions, and provide them with likelihood of success for them. Keep things going. It is less important, that the resolutions follows a pre-catalogued rulebook. </p><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div><div><div><br /></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-5260842576289364862021-07-21T14:51:00.053-07:002021-08-18T13:13:54.823-07:00Gary's Systems<div><div><div>This page is about the game systems, see here for <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/world-of-greyhawk.html">World of Greyhawk</a> and <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/garys-modules.html">adventure modules</a>. Of course, the most important of these by far margin is OD&D. </div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>Virtually everything I wrote for the D&D and AD&D game systems through 1979 was drawn from experience in the "trenches" as a DM or a player. thereafter, much of the new material was simply envisaged, put on paper, put into play, then published.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i><b>Chainmail</b></i></div><div><i><b><br /></b></i></div><div><div><i>Jeff Perren was living in Rockford, Illinois, attended a GenCon here in Lake Geneva, brought four pages of medieval miniatures rules for a ratio of 1:20 to play on the sand table in my basement with his 40mm Hauser Elastolin figurines. I so loved the game that I acquired the figures, expanded his 1:20 medieval rules to about 16 pages, and these were published in the IFW's magazine, The International Wargamer sometime in 1969 as the Castle & Crusades Society Medieval Miniatures Rules. In 1970 Don Lowry of Lowry's Hobbies and Guidon Games wished to publish the rules, so I added the Man-to-Man, Jousting, and Fantasy Supplement portions, and the whole was published as Chainmail by Gygax and Perren in 1971.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I wrote the Chainmail Medieval Military iniatures Rules "Man-to-Man" and "Fantasy Supplement" c. 1970, and the booklet was published in 1971. </i><i>#1455</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The Chainmail military miniatures rules were originally four pages to typed rules written by Jeff Perren for the 40 mm Hauser Elastolin figurines he had recently acquired (back in c, 1969). I loved those figurines, enjoyed his rules, so I expanded them into around 16 pages and called the enlarged material the Lake Geneva Tactical Studies Association Medieval Military Miniatures Rules. When Guidon Games wanted to publish rules for that period, I expanded the material by creating the Man-to-Man Rules, Jousting, and Fantasy Supplement sections.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The Fantasy Supplement demanded all sorts of figuriens not then available, so that's when conversions and dime store miniatures came into play.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>Dave Megary had a playable version of the Dungeon! game sometime earlier in 1972 that I wrote the first draft of the rules that became D&D. I was Dave's agent, revised the game board, cards, and rules in hopes of having The Avalon Hill Company publish it...without claiming any part of it despite its obvious derivation from the Chainmail game rules. TAHC turned it and D&D down, so eventurally TSR published it.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i><b>OD&D</b></i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div>For the sources and inspiration that lead to OD&D, see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/od-literary-sources-and-inspiration.html">here</a>. For here is <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/06/od-was-brilliant.html">my view on</a> OD&D.</div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://assets.dicebreaker.com/dungeons-and-dragons-original-booklets.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="450" data-original-width="800" height="360" src="https://assets.dicebreaker.com/dungeons-and-dragons-original-booklets.png" width="640" /></a></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Dave Arneson and I met at a GenCon here in Lake Geneva around 1968, and with Mike Carr we authored the Don't Give Up the Ship Naval Miniatures rules for the Great Age of Sail around 1971-2.</i></div><div><i>Dave was running a man-to-man (1 figure = one person) Chainmail fantasy campaign around then, and he and Dave Megary came down from the Twin Cities to see us, the gaming group, in Lake Geneva in the late autumn of 1972. Arneson brought some of his campaign material with him and Megary brought his Dungeon! boardgame for us to play. Megary said he had used the Chainmail Fantasy Supplement (which is obvious from the game itself) and some of Arneson's ideas to create his boardgame. Would I become his agent, for he could find no one to publish it. We all had a great time in Dave's campaign and playing Megary's boardgame. I was enthused, and said I was going to create a full-fledged set of fantasy game rules; and yes, I would approach both Guidon Games, for whom I was Chief Editor, and The Avalon Hill Company in regards to the Dungeon! boardgame.</i></div><div><i>At the end of 1972 I had written a 50 p. ms. for the fantasy game. Arneson was to send me all the rules notes he used in his campaign, but nothing usable arrived, so I write the entire ms. off the top of my head. At the same time I did a minor board re-design for the Dungeon! game )mainly on the 4th level adding the "Torture Chamber" to balance the two parts of it, revised the monster and treasure cards, and cleaned up the rules. </i>[This downplays Arneson's role -- there is docuemtented evidence of the pages he sent and that made it with few changes into the D&D manuscript]</div><div><i>Of course during all this time we were playing both the RPG abd the boardgame regularly, about every day for several hours as it were. The initial plau-testers were my son Ernie and my daughter Elise, then ages 12 and 10 years respectively. They adventured on the first of what became 13 levels of "Castle Greyhawk" of the "Greyhawk Campaign" and loved it. I went to work immediately on a second level, even as Rob and Terry Kuntz and Don Kaye joined the play-test group. I sent out about 20 photocopies of the fantasy game rules ms. to various gamers I knew that belonged to the International Federation of Wargaming, the Castle & Crusade Society, and/or the Lake Geneva Tactical Studies Assoiation. Most of the recipients were as enthused about the game as I was.</i></div><div><i>By the late spring of 1973 we had played 100 or more sessions of the fantasy game, dozens of Dungeon! boardgame games, and with the GMing and playng experience I had by then (then young Rob Kuntz being my main GM when I played), some input from those that had received copies of the nitial ms., I revised and expanded the rules to 150. pages, sent copies to the original recipients and a dozen other persons, and began to seek a publisher.</i></div><div><i>Guidon Games was not doing well, and my good friend, Tom Shaw, V.P. heading up The Avalon Hill Company laughed when I offered him one or both of the games. I then determined to do my best to start my own publishing cmpany...a;though I had not a spare penny what with a wife and five kinder to support.</i></div><div><i>None of my family was interested in backing the project, but my old pal Don Kaye was. After seeing how large GenCon had become in 1973, the new wargame compant Game Designer's Workshop formed in June of that year exhibiting at the con, Don came over to my house afterwards and asked if I could really do it, put a publishing compant together. I said sure thing! So Don borrowed $1,000 against a life insurance policy, he and I became equal partners in Tactical Studies Rules. We published Cavaliers & Roundheads Military Miniatures Rules for the English Civil War by Jeff Perren & Gary Gygax in October of 1973, hoping the sales of the booklet would generate sufficient income to afford to publish the D&D game soon thereafter, as we both knew it would be the horse to pull the company.</i></div><div><i>As an aside, I had named the fantasy game Dungeons & Dragons in the summer of 1973 after compiling two lists of potential titles, with "Dungeons" on one and "Dragons" on the other. When my little daughter Cindy said, "Oh daddy, I like Dungeons & Dragons best!" I went with her. choice.</i></div><div><i>Brian Blume attended Gencon in 1973, asked to join the LGTSA, and he was accepted. When he played the D&D game at my house, Brian bcame as enthused as we were, and when TSR was formed he asked to join as a partner. As we had only around $700 from sales, wanted to get the D&D game out, we agreed he could be an equal partner for $2,000. He joined the company thus in December, and I took the D&D ms. to Graphic Printing, then here in LAke Geneva, early in January 1974, ordering labels to go with the wood-grained paper-wrapped boxes I had ordered just prior to having the three booklets and reference sheets go to the printer. The whole run of 1,000 booklets, reference sheets sets, box front and spine labels, and boxes came to around $2,300.</i></div><div><i>Our first sale was one mail-order shipped off at the end of January when the game was hot off the press.</i></div><div><i>The next additions to the game were in process soon thereafter, those being the material published asthe rules supplement booklet Greyhawk in 1975, again all of which I wrote, but with a lot of creative input from Rob, so I included him as a co-author.</i></div><div><i>I began writing the material for the AD&D game in 1976, and I did all of it by myself as well, again with a good deal of useful input from the fellow gamers named in the work. #5713</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>It was in the late fall of 1972 when I completed a map of some castle ruins, noted ways down to the dungeon level (singular), and invited my 11-year-old son Ernie and nine-year-old daughter Elise to create characters and adventure. This they did, and around 9 PM (sound familiar?) they had to come back from such imaginary derring-do, put their index card character sheets aside, and get ready for bed. They had had a marvelous time and wanted to keep playing.</i></div><div><i>After they went upstairs I stayed in my study and went to work on a second dungeon level. The next day they played, and with their PCs were two new ones, that of Rob Kuntz and Don Kaye's Murlynd. After that it was a race for me to get more levels done as the player group grew and got more able in their delving. #1455</i></div></div><div><p><i>I will certainly play-test a rule that I am uncertain about, and if it is flawed I will amend it so as to work better. Then the players' characters get a break...one way or another...as something that happened in their adventure didn't actually happen that way at all </i>[11]</p><div><div style="font-style: italic;"><i>Gary’s maxim, “I’d rather have a good rule now than a perfect one in a year.” I’d never heard this ascribed to Gary before, but it makes a lot of sense, and when we’re wondering why this D&D class requires so many XP to level up or whatever, it’s good to remember that Gary, Dave, and the other D&D contributors were coming to the table with new rules all the time: those they like stayed, even if some pieces of them were arbitrary and not fully thought-out. It didn’t make sense to kill yourself perfecting every detail while there was still so much new game-design ground to cover. </i><span style="font-style: normal;">[29]</span></div></div><div><span style="font-style: normal;"><br /></span></div><div><div>[Ability Scores]<i> I simply decided those six were sufficient to define a character, chose names for the stats, and began using them immediately. Seems thay worked pretty well without a lot of fuss and play-test input, eh? </i>[11]</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The initial 50 page draft of what was to become the D&D game took me only about two weeks to write--around November of 1972. After all, most of the material was drawn from the CHAINMAIL Fantasy Supplement, so it wasn't a real challenge. I then sent the draft around to a dozen or two of my wargaming comrades. The positive response was overwhealming, and from my own play-testing and the many letters and phone calls received from the other testers, I revised the initial material into a draft of some 150 pages--essentially what appeared in the three booklets of the boxed D&D set. That revision took place in the early spring of 1973. When Tactical Studies Rules was formed as a partnership by Don Kaye and I in October of 1973, we produced a military miniatures rules set as the first product, as that was all we could afford. Then, when we took in a new partner, the D&D ms.went to the printer's, so the game was published and sold in January 1974. By that time I was working on the new material thyat appeared in the GREYHAWK Supplement some considerable time later. #131</i></div></div></div><div><div><i>I was as much taken with the prototype of the D&D game as anyone, so the design approach was strictly hands-on, seat-of-the-pants play and revise. The process began in the last quarter of 1972 and continued through the spring of 1973. By summer I felt the basics were sufficient to publish the game, and only a few alterations were made between then and when the work was published in January of 1974. Thereafter, however, I went back to play-and-revise, so that before the year was out we were testing the material that was published in the Greyhawk D&D game supplement in 1975. In short, I was too busy having fun playing to be really organized in the writing of the game. </i><i>#1952</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>When I first wrote the D&D game it was to share with others, because I and the local gamers had so much fun with the game. Of course I also had an eye towards being able to work on games and related things as a career. The D&D game seemed the best way to start down that path, as I was sure the audience was at least 50,000 strong. Speaking of underestimation...</i></div><div><i>In the two years immediately after the game was published I larned a lot. Many people loved playing the game as much as we did, a lot of those fans were not familiar with wargaming and/or science fiction/fantasy literature, some lived in distant countrys. #6263</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I hadn't a clue back in late 1972 when I sat down at the old portable typewriter and tapped out the initial draft rules of some 50 pages length. Even in the spring of of 1973 when I had had feedback from about 20 diverse gamers of hardcore stamp who loved the game, asked so many questions that I had an easy time expanding the draft rules to some 150 pages, I was far too moddest in my estimation of the popularity of the game and game form.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I told my eventuual partner in Tactical Studies Rules, Don Kaye, as well as friends, fellow gamers, and family, that I foresaw the game selling no fewer than 50,000 copies, mainly to military gamers and SF/fantasy fans.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>The size of the potential audience was not ascertained by me or anyone else, however. I was thinking of the customer base being military game fans and imaginative literature (SF, fantasy, horror, occult) readers--maybe 100,000 persons or so. That's why I was careful to add as much as possible to appeal to the fans of J.R.R.T. so as to broaden the audience base. </i>[11]</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I wised up beginning in late 1974 when fan letters from all sorts of people that were neither military game players nor SF/fantasy book readers were contacting us. By the middle or 1975 I was finally aware of the phenomial popularity of the D&D game and the RPG form in general. </i>[11]</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>By the time I was writing the AD&D game I was well aware that the audience for the game was much larger than I had thpought in 1972-5, and virtually world wide in scope. My initial assessment was based on the D&D game and changed only after we had published it for two years. / By the end of 1975 I was very much aware of the broad appeal of the game. The appeal was to almost anyone with an active imagination, as the theme of the game is the heroic quest one of mankind's folklore and legend. </i>[11]</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Before the D&D game was published in January of 1974, before I wrote the first draft at the close of 1972, I had come across an educational supply catalog from a company in California that sold the six Platonic solids as numbered dice. That was the only source I know of back then, and they charged $3 per set for low-impact, badly numbered dice. D&D was the first game to use all those different dice. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Yes, my desire to get away from a linear curve with 6 outcomes or a bell curve with 36. I wanted a wide variety of both for more interesting random results and put the new dice to work accordingly</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>We ordered them and sold the sets at $3.50, getting them at $2.70 from the educational supply cmpany, but they couldn't keep up with the demand, so TSR found the Far East manufacturer and ordered then by the great gross. TSR always sold dice, eventually had them made to order, but never did really good ones. </i>[11]</div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>As to the removal of hobbit, ent, and balrog, that I can speak to. One morning a marshall delivered a summons to me as an officer of TSR. It was from the Saul Zaents division of Elan Merchandising, the sum named was $500,000, and the filing claimed proprietarial rights to the above names as well as to dwarf, elf, goblin, orc, and some others too. It also demanded a cease and desist on the publication of the Battle of Five Armies game. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Of corsue the litigant was over-reaching, so in the end TSR did drop only the game (the author had assured us he was grandfathered in, but he and his attorney too were wrong) and the use of the names hobbit, balrog, and ent--even though hobbit was not created by JRRT, and ent was the Anglo-Saxon name for giant.</i> [11]</div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The Blackmoor supplement to OD&D was indeed done by Dave Arneson, editorially develped by Tim Kask. Before it was Greyhawk, after it came Eldritch Wizadry. #5398</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i><b>AD&D</b></i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When later on I wrote the AD&D game I used a less chaotic approach, including a general mission statement I created for my own reference and a short outline that grew as I progressed. #1952</i></div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>Whoa, and you must have been really hard on the old DMG to have it do that. the school book binding, stiching, made the early printings nearly indestructable. I used to test new printings by throwing a book across the room, sit and stand on it, open it and toss it around, fold it back so the covers touched, etc.</i></div><div><i>Sadly, the expensive binding process was dropped so T$R could make a dime or two more profit from each copy sold #3804</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>As for the table mentioned, I crated it because I was bored with the continual reference to "whores" in both the historical and fantasy fiction genres and in RPG play. Of course I did get a ration of s**t from some quarters for including it. As it was included in the spirit of improving the readers comprehension of the oldest profession, and broadening the vocabulary of the reader thereby, I have no particular regrets about including it #7710</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Short answer in regards to AD&D. It was written as a separate game. I put part of the new system into a D&D rewrite, though, as the latter was taking place even as I was drafting the PHB. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div>I think there were two motivations for AD&D, one to formalize the rules, which Gary felt was needed as otherwise each group invented separate solutions to the open points (even though that is exactly what he advised), and also to get out of paying royalties to Dave Arneson, the co-inventor of D&D.</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>I wrote the MM in about six months, then took a break for a month, wrote the PHB with the MM being printed and sold, the second book taking me about seven months to write. I then took a break to writhe the G Series of modules and then penned the DMG in about eitht months--after completing it I write the D Series of modules.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>The AD&D combat system came from OD&D, and OD&D came from the original Chainmail medieval military miniatures rules. The armor protection system in the latter rules was progressively higher the better the armor, so the current D20 approach is not a new concept.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Gygax has consistently maintained that a lot of what went into AD&D was in fact the work of Lawrence Schick -- pretty much any major rules that don't have an analog in Greyhawk or other supplements, for the most part. </i>[42.7]</div><div><br /></div><div><div>The three core rules books for the AD&D game took me about two and a half years to write. During that period I also wrote the G and D series of modules. The World of Greyhawk map and text took me about a month to write. [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>] </div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I wrote the G series as a break between finishing the PHB and starting the DMG, and I did the D series after completing the ms. for the DMG.</i> #7248</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>About 50% of the AD&D audience was lost when 2E was released.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><div><b>Unearthed Arcana</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>It does indeed apply to the UA book. I was writing essays for Dragon magazine to both preview my new ideas and prerpare for a revised edition of the AD&D game. I was alerted to a problem, Kevin Blume shopping TSR on the street in NYC, flew back from the West Coast, and discovered:</i></div><div><i>The corporation was in debt to the bank the tune of c. $1,5 million.</i></div><div><i>There seemed to be no way to repay the money based on current inventory and sales.</i></div><div><i>The bank was preparing to perfect its security interests/</i></div><div><i>So, I had a big fight, and then a Herculean task, before me. To cut to the chase, when I got matters in hand, I saw to the compilation of my magazine material with other work I had that had not been published, so that UA came into being. Of course during that time I was working on company business matters most of the time, so I had a number of very long days before things began to show that the turn-around I planned was working.</i> #6828</div></div><div><br /></div><div><i>All of the material in UA was mainly of my creation, gathered from articles I wrote in Dragon magazine. virtually all of that material was used in my campaign, much of it before the book was published.</i> #2015</div></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Only about 99% od the UA book was my work... Much of it apeared as articles in Dragon magazine before I collected the material and put it into a ms. form for publication.</i> #6406</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Full plate armor was a development of the 15th century, and when I was writing the pieces that comprised the bulk of the UA book my concept of developing technology in a fantasy milieu had altered. It then seemed illogical to to me to have the level of advancement stuck in the early middle ages. Thus I had fragatas and sambuks and prahus and galleasses and galleons on the seas as well as junks, cogs, caravels, and carracks.</i> #5506</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Indeed, the UA book was meant to augment the previously published core rules books, it being an "Official" offering. So whatever is in it can be applied to the PHB, LML, and/or MMs as the DM determines desirable for the campaign. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>I know some grognards dislike the direction of changes included in the UA work, but IMO thay made the campaing more varied and interesting. That includes the raise in the level limits of some demi-human types, for I remain firmly behind the restriction on such races as the game assumes a human-dominated world.</i> #7784</div><div><div><br /></div><div><b>The Strategic Review / Dragon Magazine</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I began it with the creation of The Strategic Review, then realized a more fantasy-oriented periodical with a catchy name was needed, so I hired Tim Kask to be the editor of the new magazine, The Dragon. At its peak circularion was over half a million.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div></div></div></div></div><div><b>What Gary thought were design mistakes in AD&D</b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><i>When I was writing the AD&D core material, some of my fellows in the Chicagoland area put considerable pressure on me to include psionics in the system. Sadly, I caved in to please them. If I had not been so deeply immersed in the whole, trying to get it finished on schedule, I'd have done a far better job with the psychic-power area, I believe. It would have been far better if I'd waited and done the material when concentrating solely on that aspect of play. #67</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>First, I'd remove the psionics material, possibly adding it back in later on, having been able to spend more time and being very careful to see that it meshed better with the magic system in the game.</i></div><div><div><i>Next, I'd drop the weapon speed and weapon vs. armor material, as those are seldom used and generally slow and complicate play. Those considerations could be picked up in a special "duelling" supplement or the like. #272</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>There is often player pressure to add complexities and complications to rules and systems, such additions being urged in areas that the players like and believe to be critical to enjoyment of the game. I did that for some writing in OAD&D and regretted it considerably thereafter--mainly weapons vs. armor types and psionics. I would have been better advised to have explained alignment more carefully, stressing that is was mainly for the DM to use in judging a PCS actions, and not something that should ever be discussed in character unless with clerics or in a debate of morals and ethics, mainly philosphical. Actions should speak for alignment, and a player should have his PC perform according to the alignment chosen without speaking of it. #1491</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>[Grappling] The more complex system in AD&D was my error, mainly that of listening to those who wanted combat to be very detailed. #2329</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Forget weapons speed factors. I must have been under the effect of a hex when I included them in the bloody rules</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Psionics. as with weapons speed and the table of comparison of varying damage by armor type, was something I got talked into. I never used them in my campaign--other than the Illithids' and like monsters attacks. Frankly, they don't fit with the rest of the AD&D system, and I planned to pull them from a revised edition.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Gaming fellows from Chicago urged psionics, properly electronically enhanced psychic powers, be included. Foolishly, I accomodated them. As a matter of fact I never used psionis in my campaign.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>As D&D was being quantified and qualified bu the publication of the supplemental rules booklets. I decided that Thieves' cant should not be the only secret language. thus alignment languages come into play, the rational being they were akin to Hebrew for Jewish and Latin for Roman Catholic persons. I have since regretted the addition, as the non-cleric user would have only a limited vocabulary, and little could be conveyed or understood by the use of an alignment language between non-clerical users.</i> [11]</div></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><b>What Gary would have added or changed in AD&D</b></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>As for AD&D, I planned to revise it and add skills. (See the C&C game for how I would have handled that.) Later editions would contain few changes--mainly corrections and minor additions to existing material.</i> #7368</div><div><br /></div><div><i>For an example of what I would have done regarding skills in a revised addition of AD&D, check out the C&C game's skills, for I added those to the rules when I wrote the Castle Zagyg, Yggsburgh book a couple of years or so back. These are skill bundles also, can be purchased with XPs, and for NPCs some confer levels in class as well as conveying skills. </i> #5805</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Actually, yes, as I wanted to remove some things from the AD&D rules--weapon speed factors, weapon vs. armor, and psionics for sure. then I would have added some new classes, new spells for the new spell-using classes and the existing ones as well, and cranked in a much inproved skills section rather akin to what I did for the C&C game. I also wanted to revise the MM (and all like books) into two volumes, roughly A-L, and M-Z.</i> #7475</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><div><i>I say that as barbarians get d12 for HPs, then clearlly extrapolation of the same principle must apply to large and vigorous creatures. This mitigates the potential increase in PC prowess. As a matter of fact, adult critters were assigned 7-12 HPs per HD in my AD&D campaign--have been given the same in what I have designed for the C&C game system. Also, with increase in damage due to Strength, all large and powerful monsters, including ogres and giants, gain a damage bonus equal to their number of HD. Admittedly, this is not in the UA work, but it logically follows, and would have been included in the revised edition of AD&D that I was planning</i>. #7786</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>I planned to go through the monsters' roster and re-assign HD types--d4, d6, d8, d10, and d12. While doing that in regards to the HPs of each type, the monsters' chance to hit based on number of HD would not be affected.</i></div><div><i>As too often "weak" monsters were randolly generated, I also planned to have robust adults possess HP totals of something over 50% of the possible maximum by using a HP generation system such as 3-4, 4-6, 6-10, 7-12 using the appropriate die to determine the actual number generated--d2, d3, d5, d6. Non-robust--immature, old, sick, injured, or even non-physicaly active sorts such as spell caster--monsters would have the obverse HP range using the same type of die without addition.</i></div><div><i>As a general rule I used HD = additional damage, half HD for the non-robust individuals. So an ogre would be 4d12 + 1 HPs, with damage as +4 or +2.</i> #7792</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Indeed, I intended to use the range of d4 through d12 for monsters. that would give a more intyeresting range for the chance to hit and the amlunt of damage creatures could sustain. Small fast ones wuld have d4, large ones d12, so thus there could be a pair of 10 HD monsters, one with 25 HPs and the other with 65</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>What I was planning in a revision was giving dragons a base d12 rather than a d8. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>The same is true for damage bonuses for the big, really fearsome monsters. For example, I now tend to give a +1 damage for every HD of an ogre, giant, or dragon. All of my mature giants, for example, have HPs ranging from 7-12 per HD too</i> [11]</div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Indeed, I wanted make the revised AD&D system more akin to the material in UA, to add a few new character classes, and put in some skills ala those I added in the C&C game so as to make the characters, particularly the NPCs, less cookie-cuter. </i> #5854</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><br /></div><div><b>Basic D&D</b></div><div><br /></div><div>This was not really Gary's but Holmes', and in later editions Moldvay/Cook's and Mentzer's revision of his work, but he did review them and had some influence on what whas included. </div><div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The set edited by John Eric Holmes was more like AD&D than D&D in many respects, because at the time he turned oevr the ms. I was completing my own for the AD&D PHB. I included material from the latter into the D&D game to update it.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div>[BECMI involvement] <i>A very big part, as all of those works were derived from my own. I also reviewed and approved the final drafts. In the Holmes Basic Set I inserted all of the new character information found there that was not in OD&D.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><b>Empire of the Petal Throne</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>MAR Barker sent the ms. for EPT to me at TSR, and I was most excited about its exotic nature. I urged that he have us publish it rather than there be a dispute about certain elements from the D&D game that he had included in his work. We had a meeting of the minds soon thereafter, so both his War of Wizards game and the EPT RPG were done by TSR.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Thereafter a number of us made a couple of trips to visit Phil in the Twin Cities, play in his campaigm etc. By then a number of D&D knock-offs were being hucked--T&T, B&B, and so forth. We always respected the GDW crew for taking the concept and applying it to the SF genre, for a fact.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">35</a>]</div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><b>Dangerous Journeys, Lejendary Adventures</b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><div><i>As for skills, that sort of a system is in my critical design view superior to the plain class-based game. However, if the skill-based system is very specific, it does tend to end innovation and creative thinking in favor of reliance on a dice roll. Feats are strictly for a comic book superhero game IMO, anthough special abilities of minor sort are a fine addition to the scope of character definition.</i> #8108</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>[DJ, LA]So I suppose the short answer is that both were created bacause I wanted to explore skill-based RPGs as I was dissatisfied with the constraints a class-based placed upon GMs and players alike.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>The only advantage of the O/AD&D game system over the LA one is the level-determined dungeon crawl campaign. One can not manage that with the LA game, while it is the best feature of the O/AD&D system. </i>[<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>The dungeons are designed for progressively higher PC levels. That is the sole advantage of a character-level based system. One can have the players adventure in them surely, but the challenge is different, and so too will be the sense of progress and reward.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Dungeon crawls using the LA game are not progressive as are class- and level-based ones. I have written several such scenarios, and those that have play-tested the adventures were well entertained. The key is differering challenges, not progressively more difficult to kill monsters.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><p>After a detour into a more rules-heavy system that tried to spec everything out similar to what 3e does in "Dangerous Journeys", he designed his "Lejendary Adventures" system, which he describes as a rules-light "skill-bundle" based system, without pre-defined character classes or levels, classes instead approximated by "bundles" of skills. In his estimate, the characters in that system started out about as strong as a level four character in OD&D, but would not increase as much in power later as in a level-based system, and he felt such a system allowed more natrually to develop the character you wanted, than a more archetype oriented class system, that quickly got overly complex by having to introduce ever more new character classes. </p><p>To me, all this sounds pretty similar to the chaosium system, the best, most elegant, logical and lightweight sytem I know, for these very reasons, but of course then somewhat limited in superhuman heroic fantasy that comes with high level D&D play. </p></div><div><b>Gary's Creative Process </b></div><div><b><br /></b></div><div><div><i>On a good day I can produce 25 or so pages, while when dealing with concepts and research only a page or two might bet into files. </i><i> #726</i><i><br /><br /></i></div><div><i>I have a very large personal library, use online resources now and then, and my memory. When I am considering a new project I make notes on paper, then transcribe them to computer files. I am a poor artist, so most conceptualization of creatures is done mentally, followed by descriptive text for an artist to refer to. #726</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>The main "no-no' I have is not to ignore an urge to write. Ideas are ephemeral, slip away too quickly, so when the muse is there go like hell. When it fades, thak a break, but keep thinking of the general subject being treated, even of only in the back of the head, so to speak.<br />A shower is a good way to revive flagging inspiraion. Strong black coffee is fine too--if you like that drink. #729</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When I get an idea a write it down on scratch paper if I am not at the computer. Then I give it a title as close as possiible to what the idea pertains to--a name if it's a book or module concept, and put it into a file.</i></div><div><i>When I have time I read the notes, expand them usually, and create an outline of the work to be done. Using that outline I develop separate files for the parts indicated, and write material for them as the ideas come.<br />When the body of the material is completed I go back and write the introductory portion based on what has developed. that introductory work might well necessitate the revision of some of the following work--it's a good way to check that you've done what you aimed at and said was done. #772</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When I write a module I immerse myself into the setting, imagine the players' characters interacting with the environment and the encounters, try to anticipate what they will do--the clever and the foolish. To be frank, I find writing modules a lot of work, but it is really fun, much like actually playing the adventure with a character. #1757</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>As for creative improvisation, I do that both ways, some play-test material navermaking it into print, and a lot of new material created on the spot comes into play when I am using something written, regardless of the author, me or another ;) #4718</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Not many authors make extensive notes regarding supporting characters, or about anything else that doesn't fit into the immediate story to be told, for such material tends to become set in stone and limit the scope of possibilities for new tales. (I once asked Fritz Leiber for details of Pulg and got much the same sort of reply as I make above, and he added that his fans knew more about Lankhmar than he did #5224</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Fungi are the only likely vegetable growth in a subterranean setting, so of course I have a lot of them so that such places can have a reasonable, if improbable, "natural" ecology.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>Indeed, the best advice I can give is design to please yourself and your trusty gaming comrades so as to maximize the enjoyment generated by playing the campaign.</i> #5907</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Whenever I work on a project I give it my sole creative attention and evidence a neurotic compulsion to complete the task. In short, I live, breath, eat, and sleep what I am working on</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>].</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>There is no question that when I was in good health I was unusually productive in regards ideas and their execution into usable form. I had very high creative energy and enjoyed working 10-12 hours a day, six or seven days a week.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Writer's block is something that I do not recognize as a valid reason not to produce. When I am faced with lack of creative drive I sit down and write regardless. Even if I end up tossing out a half-dozen pages of junk that exercise has kept my mind active and retained my work habits.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26882">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Writing is hard work, and most of what is claimed as writer's block seems to be nothing less that laziness to me. Not working is a lor easier than producing.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26882">11</a>]</div></div></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Why Dungeons?</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Underground mazes have been treated in mythology, fairy tales, and authored fiction (siuch as A Journey to the Centre of the Earth ) long before this device was made a central feature in the D&D game. (My favorite one from fairy tales is the one about the 12 princessess who danced holes in their slippers every night.) Anyway, the expanded underground environment featuring dungeons was indeed meant for exploration, mapping, and as a place for strange encounters. #1844</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div>I think the real answer is, because dungeons provide a great game structure for exploration that Dave Arneson had discovered in his Castle Blackmoor campaign, balancing exploration and combat in a compartemtalized way that makes it easy to DM them, compared to a city. Blackmoor also included other elements such as overland wilderness adventures, infiltration such as Temple of the Frog, city adventures in a Sci-Fi city, keep building by the players and more. Gary learned from him, copied the approach and developed it in his home game.</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Why random generation?</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>As random events occur all the time in actual life, I am a firm believer in having the same thing happen in the role-playing game. Whether the probabilities for various random things are relatively equal as with a linear curve, or wildly disparate, as a bell curve with multiple dice delivers, no matter...aslong as the resulting event is approproate to the likelihood of it occuring when compred to the class of other such events in which it appears.</i></div><div><i>I do prefer the 100 possibilities of the d% roll to most others, and one can have additional rolls if needed to reflect decrasing probability of the indicated result.</i> #5907</div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><b>Adventure Design</b></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I give a GM's forword, a players one, sometimes a separate backstory to read aloud, and the current situation. #6886</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>As far as I am concerned, and adventure I write must be relatively different from all others I have done in the past, and not resemble any other authors' works either. #1204</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Modules are hard for me to write, as I wish to make each one different in as many ways as possible from all others I have created;) #1254</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>As you might expect, my main DMing efforts were always centered around the World of Greyhawk and the various dungeon areas set by me therein so as to both serve my group and keep on supplying module material. Writing adventure modules has always been a demanding task to me, unlike winging like material for active players, putting it on paper is a chore. Coming up with new and different things, not having one module like any of the others (I hope) means a lot of extra time and effort. #1795</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I don't usually detail material of short-duration play. too much effort for something inconsequential #1272</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When I write for publication I add a lot more detail than I do for my own personal use. #2706</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>Graph paper I reserve for maps and plans. As I keep running out of it--or have hidden it somewhere I can't find in a hurry, not a few of my maps and plans have been drawn on plain white copy paper.</i></div><div><i>I like to use colored pencils to color in my outdoor maps. #2706</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>When I initially began creating adventure material I assumed that the GMs utilizing the work would prefer substance without window dressing, the latter being properly the realm of the GM so as to suit the campaign world and player group.</i></div><div><div><i>I discovered I was by and large erroneous in my assumption, so in later modules I added considerably more material for the GM to read aloud to his player group.</i></div><div><i>Currently I am rather loathe to design new adventure material of this sort, as I have done a sufficient number of modules that doing another risks repetition. I feel rather constrained thus. Coming up with something different and in at least some way surpassing my previous efforts (in my own critical view) is not a task undertaken lightly...if at all. #7073</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div></div></div><div><b>Novels </b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I did the gord novels in order to convey the S&S feel of AD&D without any particular consideration to literary merit. The books are fantasy action adventure that reflect how I think the "feel" of an AD&D game campaign should translate to stories. #1280</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>The sort of fiction I write is more of a craft than an art. Shakespeare wrote artfully, and I believe that Jack Vance does so in his genre, imaginative fiction #6230</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>The Gord yarns were completely based off of my imagination, although I did have a scene or two played out to test my assumptions in plotting things.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><div><i>The books, in reading order are:</i></div><div><i>SAGA OF OLD CITY</i></div><div><i>ARTIFACT OF EVIL</i></div><div><i>CITY OF HAWKS</i></div><div><i>NIGHT ARRANT</i></div><div><i>SEA OF DEATH</i></div><div><i>DANCE OF DEMONS</i></div><div><i>COME ENDLESS DARKNESS #666, #8031</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Dungeon Geomorphs</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>When it was apparent to me that the players would appreciate some assistance in design, the geomorphs, I simply sat down and drew (and wrote) up the material. I used some familiar names, but none of the material I did was taken from anything other than my imagination at the time. #1794</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Pre-1985 AD&D or Greyhawk works Gary's distanced himself from</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Obviously, he did not do anything after 1985 for Greyhawk or AD&D, having been ousted from TSR.</i></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>Because of severe time constraints I put Francois Marcela Froideval and Zeb Cook onto the Oriental Adventures book project. Although I had planned to co-write that work with Francois, TSR needed is immediately after UA was published so as to continue the positive cash flow from product sales. Zeb took it upon himself to delete much of Francois' material in favor of his own--which I found inferior. By the time the ms. hit my desk it was too late for me to rectify that. In all, the OA work was done according to my outline and overall direction, but the end product was not what I had envisaged or anywhere close to what I would have designed. Were TSR not at a desperate pass, I'd have placed Francois in charge of the project and had it re-written.</i> #1756</div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>TSR was in deep financial tropuble then. I assigned Froideval and Cook to the project, and Zeb dumped what I thought was superior material done by Francois in favor of his own work. As we had to get a product into print, OA came out as it did.</i></div><div><i>If you allow reasonable non-weapons proficiencies for both Occidental and Oriental PCs, I can foresee no problems being likely. You might want to take a look at the general skills I added to the C&C game system to have an inspirational basis in creating a new approach to such addition. </i>#6821</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Francois is a dear friend of mine. He bacame that after I met him in the early 1980s when he came over for a GenCon. He stayed several weeks at my house with me thereafter. At the time he was co-publisher of Causus Belli as well as an avid AD&D game DM. Eventually, Francois was employed by TSR here in Lake Geneva, and he was set to manage a subsidiary, TSR France, HQed in Paris. That was totally screwed up by the Blumes...who else. He DMed for me often, played in my campaign. IMO his Oriental Adventures material was far superior to what David Cook ended up ramrodding through in the published work. Francois. He is currently residing outside Paris and is a best-selling graphic novel author.</i> [35]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>When I separated from my first wife, I shared Francois' apartemnt briefly before getting my own place. Alone and with my wife, Gail, I have visited him several times when he lived in Paris and later on when Francois removed to a country village in Normandy.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I was custodian of Francois' Oriental material for many years. At his request I returned it to him when I was in Europe in 1999. I mentioned TLG's interest in publishing his work, but so far Francois has not been able to come here and bring it with him.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>The system is really specific to a campaign based solely on the Far East and does not translate well to any other style of campaign. So I concur with your assessment, and believe thay honor is better ignored in campaigns that extend beyond the Oriental culture setting. If the foreign PCs wish to be respected they must indeed learn the cultural demands seek honor, and be concerned about loss of face. Likely they will fail miserably, of course.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div>[Rogues Gallery] <i>As I have stated before, Brian blume compiled that work, and when persons would not give him information regarding their PCs, as Rob and I did, he simply made up whatever suited him.</i> #2701</div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>I shunned the Arduin Grimoire like the plague. However, I used all manner of other sorts of material for inspiration in the campaign, and that included ideas from other DMs and players.</i> #6855</div><div><br /></div><div><div>[Dragonlance] <i>I had no connection with the project, and I found the modules less than satisfactory for any RPG system as their outcome was too scripted.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I can't make much of a comment regarding dragons in AD&D, other than to say that those in my OA/D&D campaigns were nothing like those Tracy and Margaret created. Frankly, I never wanted a fantasy world society based around the existance and whims of dragons</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Ther coloring book was done without my oversight, and as far as I know only Serten was based on an actual PC. Indeed, I wrote the text for the coloring book because it needed something other than those line drawings. I was given the lot and had to work up a story from what I had before me...including the names for the characters depicted as given on the illustrations.</i> [11]</div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>The license arrangement with JG was made by Brian Blume, not me. He gave them permission to use the TSR copyrighted works you note. I disapproved of the arrangement, as there was no TSR quality control. </i>[<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">11</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Brian broke the agreement I had made with Greg Stafford of Chaosium. I had obtasined permission to use Melnibonean deities for the A/D&D game personally from Michael Moorcock. Meantime his agent had liscensed the material to Chaosium. To be friengly I called Greg and suggested we plug each other's game works, and he liked the idea. Brian hated it, so ripped out the Melnebonean material from the Deities & Demigods book rather than assist another RPG company.</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23153">11</a>]</div></div></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Input on 3e</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I am precluded from commenting on the matter in detail, but I did urge that the experience point system be made more contemporary, with far less emphasis on killing adversaries to earn increased level reward. That suggestion, along with virtually all of the others I made, was not implemented.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I was under contractual agreement with WotC to consult with them regarding new D&D. As I have said before, all of my suggestions were ignored. I do not believe "feats" have a place in a FRPG, as they are more akin to comic book superheroes...or "Doc Savage" or "Remo Williams" novels.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Indeed, under contract I read the unpublished draft ms. for the new PHB, as well as that for the DMG, and sent an extensive critique to WotC, all of which was ignored.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I am not fond of the new Saving Throw method, as it rather weakens the archetypes and the class-base of the system. </i>[11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>That WotC never made a public comparison of new D&D sales to those of OAD&D should speak volumes. Also, their careful estimate of the number of D&D players is well short of that found by TSR during the early 1980s. D&D players in the North America 1983 according to TSR's best estimates: 5.5 million (and about half as many players elsewhere in the world, mainly Europe and Japan).</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24626">11</a>]</div></div><div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>3E rules books might have sold 75% of what OAD&D did, but that does not apply to adjunctive support materials, and the number of players actively using the newer versions of the game is well below the peak number that played OAD&D.</i> [11] </div><div><br /></div><div>5e obviously changed all that, being an elegant system where a lot of the old clutter is removed, and which with streaming and Critical Role made D&D more popular than ever, even though it is a system that for sure would have been to "superhuman" in power for Gary's tastes.</div><div><br /></div></div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div></div></div></div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1135051205374704173.post-5666589801186216882021-07-18T03:36:00.015-07:002021-08-21T15:45:39.509-07:00Improvisation<p><b>Most of the detail in the original Greyhawk Campaign was invented on the spot during play.</b></p><div><div>From my own experiences, I can say that this approach tends to create the most exciting, immersive adventures. Some of the best and most memorable adventures with my group were when I just made up stuff in response to their suspicions, actions and to whatever the muse told me. I think this is because when you are not forced to follow and read detailed scripted material, the game flows better, there is no wait times reading up what exactly is in the room, and you are able to focus on whatever the group seems to find engaging most. Of course, once invented, these adventures take on their own reality and become part of the fabric of the world. </div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://interactive.wired.com/www-wired-com__2017__05__rise-dungeon-master-gary-gygax-birth-dd/rise_of_the_dungeon.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="535" data-original-width="800" height="428" src="https://interactive.wired.com/www-wired-com__2017__05__rise-dungeon-master-gary-gygax-birth-dd/rise_of_the_dungeon.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><div><br /></div><div><i>As for making up stuff, that has always been at least 75% of every dungeon adventure I have run that isn't a test of a module meant to be published for public consumption.</i> [11]</div><div><br /></div></div><div><i>I usually made one-line notes for my dungeon encounters, from around 20 to 25 of same for a typical level done on four-lines-to-the inch graph paper--a few more on five-, six, or seldom used 8-line graph paper. the other spaces were empty save for perhaps a few traps or transporter areas and the like.</i></div><div><div><i>I did indeed create details for the PC party on the spot, adding whatever seemed appropriate, and as Rob played and learned from me, he did the same, and when we were actively co-DMing we could often create some really exciting material on the spot, if you will.</i></div><div><i>When the encounter was elimiated I simply drew a line through it, and the place was empty for the foreseeable future. I'd give Rob the details of any session he was not at and vice versa, so we winged all of it. Sometimes a map change and encounter key note of something special in nature was made, but not often. We both remembered things well, Rob very well and when necessary something was made up out of whole cloth for the sake of continuity of adventuring.</i></div><div><i>When new maps were made it was often nearly impossible to have the stairs and other connections line up with other maps, so a note or two and "fudging" served perfectly well. This was particularly true of the means of entering and exiting lower levels from secret locations surrounding the castle ruins. #4660</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>Just in case some reader here thinks it odd to create on the fly as Rob and I usuall are want to do:</i></div><div><i>The main difference between formal creation of material and doing it as one serves in the role of GM is spontaneity, that allowing the material created on the spot to better suit the player group and the situation at hand. Otherwise one must set forth the material to be played and recite it more or less verbatim, forcing the group to its mold. The creative demand is much the same, but the free-style method usually allows for more enjoyment by all participants. </i><i>I recommend it to all GMs able to manage such playing style #4664</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><div><i>While I do often go with prepared material, especially when I am not feeling really full of energy, the best game sessions are often those in which SOP was in full swing. GMing on the fly is more demanding than is using prepared material, one's own or a published module, but the players generally really get into an extemporaneous adventure, as they are integral to its formation and direction. #4676</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div>SOP, standard operating procedure was to make up stuff "from whole cloth". </div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Skim the material, have the map handy, and then, after reading the intro material, some aloud for the players, while remembering the more interesting parts, wing the rest of it. the material is your own when you are running it for your group #6238</i></div><div><br /></div></div></div><div><div><i>Of course most of the long-time DMs will have much experience in winging it even with modules, as that was assumed to be the normal way to run adventures for the first 10 or even 15 years of RPG play.</i></div><div><i>I suspect that newer GMs are more used to the hand-holding modules, prepare like material for their own campaigns. #4680</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>The opinions of some folks to the contrary, I have always "winged" most adventures--the exceptions being play-tests of material in a ms. for a module, and a few set-piece places I developed. All the outdoor adventures I ran, and most of the dungeon crawls were half or more made up on the spot. #1706</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Most of the time I am GMing something other that a play-test of some module, I wing the whole adventure session, so the palyers are at complete liberty to do whatever their hearts desire. If it is something foolish, I enliven things a bit more than usual... #6924</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>I rely on a map for general inspiration, but do not usually have any real notes at all, only pretend ones to make the players think the adventure has been planned. Of course my old-time regulars knew that wasn't the case, especially when they were returning to Greyhawk from the Land of Chin. As well as when dungeoneering, as all of them had seen the encounter notes page for one or more levels, single lines for each of 20 or so places on each level. </i><i>Dice assisted in that by indicating random encounters, what was encountered...if it fitted. Otherwise I would select the one that seemed right or make up something. #6928</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><i>On top of that, EGG and I were both naturally creative individuals whom as co-DMs sought out expansion (and expression) of concepts and ideas as these gathered to us. These ideas were often spawned during game play, by reading a book the night before an adventure, through scouring our ever-growing notes and sometimes were derived from voiced, but errant, surmises on the players’ parts, such as … “I bet it’s a…” …or … “It seems like a watcha-ma-jigger” or, more emphatically, “It’s a (fill in the blank for a monster or situation)!” </i>[<a href="http://lordofthegreendragons.blogspot.com/2010/10/machine-level-special-web-introduction.html">41</a>]</div><div><br /></div><div>The level designs and minimal prepared notes provided a framework for the GM to start from. Look at <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-greyhawk-castle-level-1.html">level 1 of the castle</a> for an example. </div></div><p>Gygax improvised large amounts of content, in response to player actions -- giving them more of what appeard to excite them. He also <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2021/07/why-od-was-rules-light-system.html">improvised rules</a>, to keep things moving, rather than looking them up in the book, even where they existed. </p><p>Of course, on the player side of things you would not know what was predefined and what invented, but this approach helped to avoid wasted time looking up what was written in the adventure manuscript and kept the game moving. </p><div><i>In the original campaign run in Lake Geneva, much of the refereeing was done "seat-of-the-pants" style, and encounter areas were not fleshed out much beyond quickly jotted notes. </i>[7]</div><div><br /></div><div><em>Whatever was there was just to stimulate the DM's imagination and inspire something that suited the party for good or ill. </em>[6]</div><div><br /></div><div><i>All the outdoor adventures I ran, and most of the dungeon crawls were half or more made up on the spot. [6 #1706]</i></div><div><br /></div><div><em>Rob and I both DMed on the fly, made only short and often cryptic notes, and thought very much alike, so handing the "castle" back and forth as co-DMs was never a problem. Encounter notes consisting of only one line from which we created reams of information out of whole cloth on the spot. </em>[2]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>Rob and I both DMed on the fly, made only short and often cryptic notes, and thought very much alike, so handing the "castle" back and forth as co-DMs was never a problem. The old material would be basically unusable my most others, of course, encounter notes consisting of only one line from which we created reams of information out of whole cloth on the spot; [6 #4414] </i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><em>Areas around the city were developed on the spot as the need arose. As a matter of fact, all of the adventures in the City of Greyhawk were “winged”, created from whole cloth on the spot. The many players now active loved this. Even though the castle dungeon levels were deeper, the challenges greater, the rewards richer, proportionally more time was spent in “city adventuring.” </em>[6]</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>It is so tedious to remember all the minor, but necessary, details. how I do enjoy winging a dungeon crawl with nothing but a map and the sort of encounter noted, creating all the other details on the spot! #2929</i></div></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>In my opinion the best way for a DM to manage monsters is to know what their type is, generaly what an average one of that sort can do, and then...WING IT! #7480</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Reacting to Player Action and granting agency</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><div><i>When extemporizing, the GM must be prepared to handle all manner of unexpected actions by the players. If they are foolish, I always invent a number of opportunities for disaster. If the course taken is one that is clever and innovative, I add in rewards.</i></div></div></div><div><div><i>Before a party goes off on a likley disasterous course I will try to deter them from such action--wandering monsters have much usefulness in this regard.</i></div><div><i>As for "railroading," there are some scenarios where a bit of that is absolutely necessary to further the whole of the adventure. This is not to say that an entire adventure should be linear and force the party into a situation with a foregone conclusion. The use of a predetermined outcome should be only to set up an interesting and challenging scenario where the players are absolutely free to manage the outcome on their own, that outcome offering penalties for wrong decisions, rewards for correct ones, large rewards for innovation and creative solutions #1706</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Incorporating Player Ideas</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Gary went beyond just making up missing detail: he was making up the story in response to the players.</div><div><br /></div><div><i>Mining the player group for ideas is certainly a good idea, as many heads are often better than one when looking for new and innovative approaches. Of course, that is one of the uses of well-designed modules...fresh ideas slip into one's own campaign. </i><i>My group always castigates a fellow that mentions something I might do, for they know if it is demanding and I hadn't thought of it, the mention will assure the appearance of whatever was spoken of at some point... [6 #5833]</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>I would often allow in-game discourse between PCs to develop a plot and direct the general direction of things. Not surprisingly, the players often know pretty well what sort of adventure they would enjoy, so by listening and creating by the seat of one's pants can work wonders...or at least squeek by with something that's mildly entertaining to the group. #287</i></div><div><i><br /></i></div><div><div><i>Of course I am used to winging adventures for a few decades now. It is work when doing so, but it generally is a more enjoyable adventure experience for the players, as one can craft events directly from players' comments and the actions of their PCs. #6916</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><div><i>Outside of the random tables, dungeon components etc. I have prepared over the years, most of which have been published when I wing it I try to suit the adventure to the players and their PCs.</i></div><div><i>I listen to what the players are saying about the adventure, and take inspiration from chance remarks...as I believe most other GMs are wont to do. #6939</i></div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><i>Other than the matter of me doing a good deal of extemperaneous creation in play sessions, I am not a paricularly notable Game Master</i> [<a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26882">11</a>]</div></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>Keeping it up</b></div><div><br /></div><div>Gary continued this approach also in later years, during the convention play.</div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I have indeed DMed a fair number of adventures using other designers' material. The SLAVE PITS series, for one, and another I used often for quick pick-up games was the ABDUCTION OF GOOD KING DESPOT, one of my favorite short scenarios. #1707</i></div><div><br /></div><div><i>Usually, though, players want to adventure in something I have created, so I do a lot of winged adventures outdoors or in the old Castle Greyhawk dungeons, or else use manuscript material I have on hand. To be absolutely truthful, I usually create new material on the spot for my own material that doesn't exactly follow what is written down, as circumstances alter cases :D #1707</i></div></div><div><br /></div><div><b>Adventure Hooks</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>I have no standard ones that aren't the usual stock in trade of GMs everywhere. Typically, I inform the team that their renown has reached the ear of so-and-so, thus cuasing that one to want then to do X for him or her. Otherwise, they are assembled because Y threatens them, or they have heard of the fabulous Z and wish to acquire/destroy it. Sometimes, I suggest the adventure is being undertaken because they are bored with the humdrum affairs of the ordinary and seek adventure. Of course, having some friend or relative kidnapped is always a good adventure hook too ;)</i></div><div><i>Whatever suits the campaign, the players, and the GM's fancy serves as a lead in to the adventure. When I create a module I always try to have the hook included as general as possible so as to be mutable to meet the above. #4415</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div><b>City Games</b></div><div><br /></div><div><div><i>A sketch map of the community, a few places of interested highlighted in color, and then wing it. As the PCs develop something interesting by interacting with what I present that becomes a fixture in the town. This might be a particular street thief, a tavern, a stable with a shifty owner, whatever... #8751</i></div><div><br /></div></div><div>[References: see <a href="https://spellshare.blogspot.com/2020/08/old-castle-greyhawk.html">Greyhawk References</a>]</div>Unknownnoreply@blogger.com0